Senator Says Enough to OKC American Indian Museum Funding Requests

[AquaMan]

Romulans don't recognize ownership like the Ferengi.

Yeah, I forgot. The Ferengi were the business guys. What was Whorf?

[Townsend]

Yeah, I forgot. The Ferengi were the business guys. What was Whorf?

Klingon raised by Russians.

[Conan71]

We've made plenty in reparations.  At what point does it become extortion?

[heironymouspasparagus]

We've made plenty in reparations.  At what point does it become extortion?

After fair value payment has been made.

What is the present value of all the lands, minerals, and resources that were taken without payment?  Plus interest for anywhere from 60 to 400 years.

Plus the price for each human being snuffed out in the process over the same years?  Didn't Ford do a study on that when deciding whether to fix the Pinto or not?  Multiply that number by about 50 million or so.


Or just call it good...

[Conan71]

After fair value payment has been made.

What is the present value of all the lands, minerals, and resources that were taken without payment?  Plus interest for anywhere from 60 to 400 years.

Plus the price for each human being snuffed out in the process over the same years?  Didn't Ford do a study on that when deciding whether to fix the Pinto or not?  Multiply that number by about 50 million or so.


Or just call it good...

Take a look at all the mineral resources which have helped the tribes collectively and individually as well as all this sovereignty which allows them to circumvent certain laws to have an advantage selling tobacco and building and operating casinos which have helped the tribes immensely.  Their members get to use state schools and drive on state and federally-funded highways while escaping paying the same taxes on their cars as we do to maintain those schools and roads with the exception of some compact agreements.

"We knew we (tribes) had taxation rights as sovereign nations,"
said Sac & Fox chief Kay Rhoads. "Our lands are exempt from state
taxes, so our citizens did not deserve taxation through state car tag
sales.  http://indiancountrynews.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1109&Itemid=33

I'd say they are doing pretty well, Heir.  I'm no hater, simply stating the facts that there's been plenty made in terms of reparations and trying to give what used to be a struggling demographic a hand up socially and monetarily.  I'm putting the cultural center into the context of yet one more reparation which really has no tangible benefit and seems to lack the interest and backing from the tribes.

[cannon_fodder]

If we are calling for reparations...

My ancestors are from Bavaria, we were raped and pillaged by Rome.  Then raided by the damn Belgians, and French before being pillaged by the Kaiser and sucked into Prussia (and later Germany).   In the end my family was forced to abandon our land and flee to America.  I want my money from the Belgians, Frogs, and Germans. Especially those damn industrious Germans.

My grandfather lost brothers to the Japanese in WWII... I've never seen a damn dime for that loss.

My wife is Irish, her grandparents were forced out of Ireland by the British.  I've never gotten a single check from those protestant land-grabbing Brits.

When my ancestors came to this country we were berated and discriminated against.  We lost our language, our crafts, our culture.  Speaking German was not popular from around 1911 – 1945.  Now no one in my family speaks German.  We lost our cultural identity and have no compensation.

My great-grandfather was, by many accounts, a drunk.  He squandered the family farm such that his children inherited nothing.  As a consequence I did not inherit nay of the 2000 acres of farm land now valued at $6500 an acre.  I want reparations from the alcohol industry.

Now I do realize that no one alive is responsible for these transgressions.  I know that they can never really be made right.  And I have been told and understand that by bringing it up and holding this grudge with the aforementioned knowledge that I am really just making the situation worse.  But because my people (and by "my" people I mean people that I may be distantly related to but share little or no cultural relevance with) were screwed over I want mine!
- - - -

I know this isn't the same and it isn't my intention to make light.  But you know the general concept is the same.  There was a war over land in the "new world" and the deck was stacked.  Native Americans lost and in many instances made treaties and were later flat out screwed over.  Unfortunately that story has been written throughout the entire world... and in fact is probably how a given tribe came to hold the land they were later screwed out of.  It wasn't right.  It still isn't.

However, there is not anything that can or will be done to make it right.  The people to punish for this transgression are as dead as the Prussians that kicked my ancestors out of Bavaria.  Admit we screwed up. Honor the treaties that we still have available.  Make things right that we are able to (tribes are still owed money under various treaties that has never been paid).  Then honor the tribal heritage and their identity and lets move on.

[carltonplace]

can't they just set aside some slot machines to fund this? I've seen slot machines finance some pretty nice hotels.

[Oil Capital]

If we are calling for reparations...

My ancestors are from Bavaria, we were raped and pillaged by Rome.  Then raided by the damn Belgians, and French before being pillaged by the Kaiser and sucked into Prussia (and later Germany).   In the end my family was forced to abandon our land and flee to America.  I want my money from the Belgians, Frogs, and Germans. Especially those damn industrious Germans.

My grandfather lost brothers to the Japanese in WWII... I've never seen a damn dime for that loss.

My wife is Irish, her grandparents were forced out of Ireland by the British.  I've never gotten a single check from those protestant land-grabbing Brits.

When my ancestors came to this country we were berated and discriminated against.  We lost our language, our crafts, our culture.  Speaking German was not popular from around 1911 – 1945.  Now no one in my family speaks German.  We lost our cultural identity and have no compensation.

My great-grandfather was, by many accounts, a drunk.  He squandered the family farm such that his children inherited nothing.  As a consequence I did not inherit nay of the 2000 acres of farm land now valued at $6500 an acre.  I want reparations from the alcohol industry.

Now I do realize that no one alive is responsible for these transgressions.  I know that they can never really be made right.  And I have been told and understand that by bringing it up and holding this grudge with the aforementioned knowledge that I am really just making the situation worse.  But because my people (and by "my" people I mean people that I may be distantly related to but share little or no cultural relevance with) were screwed over I want mine!
- - - -

I know this isn't the same and it isn't my intention to make light.  But you know the general concept is the same.  There was a war over land in the "new world" and the deck was stacked.  Native Americans lost and in many instances made treaties and were later flat out screwed over.  Unfortunately that story has been written throughout the entire world... and in fact is probably how a given tribe came to hold the land they were later screwed out of.  It wasn't right.  It still isn't.

However, there is not anything that can or will be done to make it right.  The people to punish for this transgression are as dead as the Prussians that kicked my ancestors out of Bavaria.  Admit we screwed up. Honor the treaties that we still have available.  Make things right that we are able to (tribes are still owed money under various treaties that has never been paid).  Then honor the tribal heritage and their identity and lets move on.

Best.  Post.  Ever. 

[shadows]

So, just blurt it out Shadows. "WE AIN'T HELPIN' NO STINKIN' WHITEYS EVEN IF IT MEANS OUR HISTORY IS KEPT TO OURSELVES!"
.

The natives were here thousands of years before the WHITEYS appeared who thought they were gods.  The whiteys set a path to genocide the entire native population even placing a bounty on their heads.  There is no reason we should build a museum that might display this abuse.     

[AquaMan]

To bad for you. You rob others of an understanding of your hatred. I suppose you also don't want to build a museum for the tribes your ancestors annihilated along the way. Good call. No use bringing up the fact that your ancestors were just as human as mine and subject to the same failures. Had technology benefited your progenitors you'd be building the museum.

I felt a deep sense of sorrow, insight and compassion when I visited a Native American museum in Arizona back in the 80's. It was also a great moment for my little boys. We were shocked to see photos of Indian families that had lived in the area and were treated so badly. It changed my view of history and provided a chance to make an impact on my boys as to how blind racism works and its results.

Good thing we don't have support for one here, eh?

[Conan71]

The natives were here thousands of years before the WHITEYS appeared who thought they were gods.  The whiteys set a path to genocide the entire native population even placing a bounty on their heads.  There is no reason we should build a museum that might display this abuse.     

Carefull, Recyclemichael hates the term "whitey".

Aside from that, I don't think this museum aims to purport abuses.  This museum is one of the worst examples of a foobared up pork project as there has ever been in Oklahoma aside from our overly expansive prison and university systems.  There are plenty of prominent museums already scattered about Oklahoma which acknowledge and document the atrocities put upon the Native Americans, aside from millions of volumes of books and articles which document this.

Cannon_fodder makes a great point: at some point in our own tribal histories, probably every human being's blood line was set upon by conquerers and forced to move with no reparations.  Many came to this country and endured years of discrimination and epithets as well.

Again, at what point to "reparations" become extortion, Shadows?

[Conan71]

can't they just set aside some slot machines to fund this? I've seen slot machines finance some pretty nice hotels.

Give 'em a bunch of paddle balls...

[Hoss]

Give 'em a bunch of paddle balls...

It's either Marshalls, or a reference to Blazing Saddles.  Nicely done!

Now, get both in, and remain in context, and you'll be 'en fuego'.

[shadows]

To bad for you. You rob others of an understanding of your hatred.
Good thing we don't have support for one here, eh?

From under the trees I watch a fellow name Thomas as he instructed the Native Americans on the shaping of stones on a long bench, to build a museum.   He said that this would be a monument to the Native Americans.  It and the artifacts he had gathered would be open for public display, free of an admission charge, to show the Natives were not savages but were highly skilled workmen.  Only Native Americans would be allowed to work constructing the building. He said that oil royalties of his would be used to maintain the monument for this group.

Ever thing he planned has been overwritten by the bureaucracy and trampled into the dirt by dislodging it from it intended place in history.  It is easy to see why the tribes have little interest in building a museum any where in their native country.......

[Conan71]

From under the trees I watch a fellow name Thomas as he instructed the Native Americans on the shaping of stones on a long bench, to build a museum.   He said that this would be a monument to the Native Americans.  It and the artifacts he had gathered would be open for public display, free of an admission charge, to show the Natives were not savages but were highly skilled workmen.  Only Native Americans would be allowed to work constructing the building. He said that oil royalties of his would be used to maintain the monument for this group.

Ever thing he planned has been overwritten by the bureaucracy and trampled into the dirt by dislodging it from it intended place in history.  It is easy to see why the tribes have little interest in building a museum any where in their native country.......

Gilcrease's words were spoken in a time of different economic reality.  Without the city and TU, chances are Gilcrease would have vanished from the landscape sometime back or become yet another casino.