Reid Says "We don't need a budget!"

[Hoss]

There are already tons of taxes in every gallon of gas you burn.  Raise the taxes on the oil companies profits and you will pay even more for that gallon of gas.  The obscene profits they are making are keeping millions of us in jobs right now via reinvestment in the petroleum infrastructure.  Oil is one of the few industries experiencing real growth right now in the American economy.  Unfortunately, none of that is going into new mega-refineries or major pipeline projects right now.  I assure you, whatever the oil companies aren't paying in taxes is being trebled in personal income tax and corporate taxes on the businesses who serve the oil industry.

That money is going a whole lot further when the oil companies spend it than it does when the government confiscates it.

But when those oil companies spend it lobbying the lawmakers, it's part of the problem.  As I see it, anyway.

[Conan71]

But when those oil companies spend it lobbying the lawmakers, it's part of the problem.  As I see it, anyway.

What industry isn't spending huge sums on lobbying with their profits?  Believe it or not, on the list of the largest lobbying spenders from '98 to '11, Exxon Mobil, the leading single spender in the energy industry only ranks 10th on the list at just under $170 million.  The U.S. Chamber Of Commerce is, by far, the largest spender at over $800 million.

As an industry, oil & gas ranks fifth in that time period on lobbying expenditures, spending roughly 1/2 what health and pharma spend currently and overall.  An odd trend I noted though is up until 2008, oil & gas generally ranked 8th-12th on the list of spenders.  They've ranged from 3rd to 5th since 2008.  I'm curious what that's all about considering lobbying money is spent mostly on Congress and that represents stepped up spending even during a Democrat-controled Senate and House as well as with the current Republican-dominated House and Democrat Senate.

Spend some time clicking around here, it's pretty fascinating:

http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/index.php

[Red Arrow]

Missing a critical component - the definition seems to imply no consideration of source of funds and whether there is a payment to be made in either direction.  Care to elaborate?

Payment/benefit is the issue.  Some things we are entitled to by payment into a fund, as Social Security is supposed to be.  Other things we are entitled to because we exist and laws or regulations have been passed to that effect.  Some entitlements just seem to come about by social pressure.  I heard tonight (on one of your favorite TV programs) that many high school students feel they are entitled to a passing grade for trying, regardless of success.  Trophies for everyone please.

[nathanm]

There are already tons of taxes in every gallon of gas you burn.  Raise the taxes on the oil companies profits and you will pay even more for that gallon of gas.  The obscene profits they are making are keeping millions of us in jobs right now via reinvestment in the petroleum infrastructure.  Oil is one of the few industries experiencing real growth right now in the American economy. 

Profit is by definition not being reinvested in the business.

Anyway, I'll leave you with this line from ExxonMobil's 2010 financial statements:

18. Income, Sales-Based and Other Taxes
                             2010                     2009                       2008
                          U.S.   Non-U.S.   Total    U.S.  Non-U.S.    Total    U.S.   Non-U.S.   Total
Current                 $ 1,224 $ 21,093 $ 22,317 $ (838) $ 15,830 $ 14,992 $ 3,005 $ 31,377 $ 34,382
Deferred – net               49   (1,191)  (1,142)   650      (665)     (15)    168    1,289    1,457

[heironymouspasparagus]

Payment/benefit is the issue.  Some things we are entitled to by payment into a fund, as Social Security is supposed to be.  Other things we are entitled to because we exist and laws or regulations have been passed to that effect.  Some entitlements just seem to come about by social pressure.  I heard tonight (on one of your favorite TV programs) that many high school students feel they are entitled to a passing grade for trying, regardless of success.  Trophies for everyone please.

And which is my favorite TV show?  (Hint;  NRA TV channel)


The biggest thing that is being attempted to redefine as entitlement is Social Security.  It isn't an entitlement according to that definition.  It is closer to an annuity.  And yet, entitlement is the term that is trying to be sold to the American people.  It is one of their biggest lies.

[Red Arrow]

Profit is by definition not being reinvested in the business.

I think you're on to something.  We can confiscate tax all the profit without affecting their ability to operate since all the operation costs are subtracted from gross income.  Let's do it. The price of gas can actually go down since they won't have to pay someone to figure out what to do with all that profit that they now won't have.

[Red Arrow]

And which is my favorite TV show?  (Hint;  NRA TV channel)

Wrong kind of favorite.... O'Reilly.

The biggest thing that is being attempted to redefine as entitlement is Social Security.  It isn't an entitlement according to that definition.  It is closer to an annuity.  And yet, entitlement is the term that is trying to be sold to the American people.  It is one of their biggest lies.

I think of SS as an annuity but I suppose, by what appears to be a commonly accepted definition, we are entitled to SS benefits by having paid into the system so it could be considered an entitlement.  Entitled because we paid as compared to entitled because Congress decreed it to be.  Still entitled, therefore it's an entitlement.  As an annuity, I strongly object to means testing for SS.  Means testing for something like food stamps would be OK.  No money in, you don't need it, no money out.

[Conan71]

Profit is by definition not being reinvested in the business.

Anyway, I'll leave you with this line from ExxonMobil's 2010 financial statements:

18. Income, Sales-Based and Other Taxes
                             2010                     2009                       2008
                          U.S.   Non-U.S.   Total    U.S.  Non-U.S.    Total    U.S.   Non-U.S.   Total
Current                 $ 1,224 $ 21,093 $ 22,317 $ (838) $ 15,830 $ 14,992 $ 3,005 $ 31,377 $ 34,382
Deferred – net               49   (1,191)  (1,142)   650      (665)     (15)    168    1,289    1,457

[nathanm]

What, you think it's odd that they pay 17 times more tax to other jurisdictions than their home jurisdiction?

[Conan71]

What, you think it's odd that they pay 17 times more tax to other jurisdictions than their home jurisdiction?

No, rolling my eyes at your persistent hair-splitting.  This time over profit.  If it's not profit and it's not debt which funds capital expansion, or payroll expansion then what is it?

[nathanm]

If it's not profit and it's not debt which funds capital expansion, or payroll expansion then what is it?

Revenue and the sale of stock.

[Conan71]

You just love to throttle me, don't you?

[nathanm]

You just love to throttle me, don't you?

It's really not hair splitting, though. The distinction is important when talking about corporate income tax. The money generated that is reinvested in the business is not taxed in the long run. CapEx doesn't count as a deductible business expense (usually), but you get it back in future years as you depreciate.

[Gaspar]

I'm just amazed at how some people can spend all their time figuring out new ways to tax things.

[nathanm]

I'm just amazed at how some people can spend all their time figuring out new ways to tax things.

I'm just amazed at how some people can spend all their time with their fingers stuck in their ears saying "LA LA LA LA LA" at the top of their lungs so they don't have to face the fact that we can't cut our way into a balanced budget, unless your name is Ron Paul and you have no problem with eliminating the DoD.