Just One Important Issue

[Hoss]

Who said anything about someONE requiring you to live somewhere?  SomeTHING (the price of oil and subsequently every other commodity) will ultimately decide for you. 

I'm not talking about a government fiat.  I'm saying that living in the deep suburbs is an excess that can be afforded only by cheap access to petroleum.  Rather than looking at ways to reduce the amount of energy (in the more newtonian sense) one uses in ones daily life, people look for ways to game the system.  In the face of a dwindling energy supply, people rush to the electric car rather than reducing the need for a car.

Just saying "I'm free" doesn't exuse your paranoid, destructive, and wasteful choices for your life.  It certainly shouldn't be the part of the public good (government) to subsidize your wasteful lifestyle (gasoline subsidies).

All of this said, I'm sorry I got engaged.  I really hate talking politics on here.  I joined TNF to get the scoop on new housing projects and see what good ideas people had about ways to bring our badass little city together.  For me, energy policy and city planning go hand in hand, and that is why when petroleum is brought up, I feel I need to speak.  I will stay away from your post from now on Gaspar.

Gaspar says: Good.

He has that effect on people..not just you.

[we vs us]

Who said anything about someONE requiring you to live somewhere?  SomeTHING (the price of oil and subsequently every other commodity) will ultimately decide for you. 

I'm not talking about a government fiat.  I'm saying that living in the deep suburbs is an excess that can be afforded only by cheap access to petroleum.  Rather than looking at ways to reduce the amount of energy (in the more newtonian sense) one uses in ones daily life, people look for ways to game the system.  In the face of a dwindling energy supply, people rush to the electric car rather than reducing the need for a car.

Just saying "I'm free" doesn't exuse your paranoid, destructive, and wasteful choices for your life.  It certainly shouldn't be the part of the public good (government) to subsidize your wasteful lifestyle (gasoline subsidies).

All of this said, I'm sorry I got engaged.  I really hate talking politics on here.  I joined TNF to get the scoop on new housing projects and see what good ideas people had about ways to bring our badass little city together.  For me, energy policy and city planning go hand in hand, and that is why when petroleum is brought up, I feel I need to speak.  I will stay away from your post from now on Gaspar.

Gaspar says: Good.

You're absolutely right, re: energy policy and planning. 

What has stunned me consistently about our little TNF community is how conservative some of our members are on classic questions of government and economy but support a brand of public planning (and end-user energy policy) for Tulsa that is deeply progressive.  I think TNF is part of this subtle but unmistakable shift in our culture away from small town Eisenhower conservatism back to a communitarian urbanism. It's a thing that's going in fits and starts, and obviously is more prevalent to bigger cities than places, say, like Tulsa, but it's definitely happening, it's generational, and is increasing. I also think it's progressive about small questions, about living day to day, rather than being progressive about large questions, about how the country itself should be run.  At the same time, it undeniably touches on things like sustainability, environmentalism, stimulative (yes, stimulative!) but not punitive local tax policy, mass transit and a reduction in car culture, which dovetails with reduced fossil fuel use, etc.  Affordable housing and neighborhood preservation is in there, too.  Local foods, farmer's markets, backyard gardens are, too.  I'd call this Quality-of-Life Progressivism, and despite our differing preferences in national politics, all of us seem to identify strongly with this.

It doesn't mean that all the politics on here are coherent by any stretch, but we all do believe in some very similar ways of living. 




 

[JCnOwasso]

I second Hoss.

Different point of views make the world go around.  If everyone believed the same way, things would be pretty boring.  

I am curious if you have taken in to consideration a family, rather than a singular person (it just appears that you are referring to a singular individual).

[JCnOwasso]

We Vs Us, i am not sure you can have both a mass transit system/reduced car culture and affordable housing.  Affordable housing happens now because we have such a vast amount of land available and a car culture.  When external stimuli (gas prices, fuel shortage etc) begin to limit the available real estate, it becomes a more expensive proposition the closer you get to the city center.  A great example was the price of Smart Cars during the big fuel jump a few years back and the decline in the price of larger vehicles.  This would happen in the real estate market.   

[we vs us]

We Vs Us, i am not sure you can have both a mass transit system/reduced car culture and affordable housing.  Affordable housing happens now because we have such a vast amount of land available and a car culture.  When external stimuli (gas prices, fuel shortage etc) begin to limit the available real estate, it becomes a more expensive proposition the closer you get to the city center.  A great example was the price of Smart Cars during the big fuel jump a few years back and the decline in the price of larger vehicles.  This would happen in the real estate market.   

I think you're absolutely right, FWIW . . . I mentioned that only because both seem to be central (and competing) concerns of the New Urbanism.

In every place I've ever lived or visited that had successful mass transit, real estate was expensive and density was a fact of life.

[Conan71]

We Vs Us, i am not sure you can have both a mass transit system/reduced car culture and affordable housing.  Affordable housing happens now because we have such a vast amount of land available and a car culture.  When external stimuli (gas prices, fuel shortage etc) begin to limit the available real estate, it becomes a more expensive proposition the closer you get to the city center.  A great example was the price of Smart Cars during the big fuel jump a few years back and the decline in the price of larger vehicles.  This would happen in the real estate market.  

Anyone notice the explosion in scooter sales and scooter riders around the city in 2008?  They couldn't keep the scooters in stock and now I believe they are barely hanging on.  Not even sure if the scooter store on 15th is still in business or not.  I suspect if gas gets back to $5.00 a gallon we will see more scooters coming out of the shed.

I retired my F-150 this time last year and just calculated the fuel savings over the last year of about $2400.  Plus, at it's advanced age, I was spending $500 to $1000 a year on maintenance.  I over-pay my car payment every month so it's actually worked out to be about a break even plus better reliability.

[we vs us]

Anyone notice the explosion in scooter sales and scooter riders around the city in 2008?  They couldn't keep the scooters in stock and now I believe they are barely hanging on.  Not even sure if the scooter store on 15th is still in business or not.

Not. 

[Red Arrow]

Anyone notice the explosion in scooter sales and scooter riders around the city in 2008?  They couldn't keep the scooters in stock and now I believe they are barely hanging on.  Not even sure if the scooter store on 15th is still in business or not.  I suspect if gas gets back to $5.00 a gallon we will see more scooters coming out of the shed.

I retired my F-150 this time last year and just calculated the fuel savings over the last year of about $2400.  Plus, at it's advanced age, I was spending $500 to $1000 a year on maintenance.  I over-pay my car payment every month so it's actually worked out to be about a break even plus better reliability.

About how many miles per year do you drive?

[Red Arrow]

I'm not talking about a government fiat.  I'm saying that living in the deep suburbs is an excess that can be afforded only by cheap access to petroleum.  Rather than looking at ways to reduce the amount of energy (in the more newtonian sense) one uses in ones daily life, people look for ways to game the system.  In the face of a dwindling energy supply, people rush to the electric car rather than reducing the need for a car.

It doesn't have to be petroleum but what's wrong with increasing the supply of energy.  The alternative is to go back to at least the 19th century, get rid of all access to transportation to individuals and everyone will live within walking distance of work.  Want a steel mill next to your house?

Just saying "I'm free" doesn't exuse your paranoid, destructive, and wasteful choices for your life.  It certainly shouldn't be the part of the public good (government) to subsidize your wasteful lifestyle (gasoline subsidies).

I am so glad that running a city doesn't take any energy.  Take a look at satellite views of the earth during the dark hours and tell me it's really necessary to light up the world.  Even in urban areas like NYC, people want to go farther than they are willing to walk.  Yes there are buses and electric rail but there are also taxi cabs.  Public transit used to be private, for profit companies but not anymore.  While I think transit subsidies are probably money well spent, they cannot be neglected if one starts talking about subsidies to suburbia.

[Conan71]

About how many miles per year do you drive?

30,000 over the last year which was unusually high for me even though the future Mrs. Conan lives in OKC.  I had four or five trips to New Mexico, Colorado, & Wyoming as well this past year which was more than usual.  Other part is, once you are in OKC, everything is freaking 20 miles away, it seems.  That's coming to an end soon though.  If I put more than 15,000 on it this next 12 months, I'll be surprised.

[Red Arrow]

30,000 over the last year which was unusually high for me even though the future Mrs. Conan lives in OKC.  I had four or five trips to New Mexico, Colorado, & Wyoming as well this past year which was more than usual.  Other part is, once you are in OKC, everything is freaking 20 miles away, it seems.  That's coming to an end soon though.  If I put more than 15,000 on it this next 12 months, I'll be surprised.

I expected it to be a bunch.  I drive 100 mi/week to work and this last year about another 100/week on my own stuff.  At 20 MPG, that doesn't even come to $2400 much less being able to save $2400.

[Conan71]

I expected it to be a bunch.  I drive 100 mi/week to work and this last year about another 100/week on my own stuff.  At 20 MPG, that doesn't even come to $2400 much less being able to save $2400.

Saved me about 800 gallons of gas.  The truck averaged 15 MPG, the Sonata 25 MPG.  I figured average fuel price over the last year including traveling at $3.10 a gallon.  I recently picked up an old Western Flyer cruiser bike, I suspect I'll use it for errand running within a few miles of the house.  At least for small things I need to get.  I'll probably also start riding a bike to work more often as the weather warms this year.

[Red Arrow]

I recently picked up an old Western Flyer cruiser bike, I suspect I'll use it for errand running within a few miles of the house.  At least for small things I need to get.

Does it have a huge basket on the handlebars like my friends with newspaper routes had?  I looked them up on the internet within the last year.  They are still available.

Edit: The baskets are available.  Don't know about the friends, I've lost contact with those particular friends.

[Conan71]

Does it have a huge basket on the handlebars like my friends with newspaper routes had?  I looked them up on the internet within the last year.  They are still available.

Edit: The baskets are available.  Don't know about the friends, I've lost contact with those particular friends.

No, but I can get the basket.  It's still got the luggage rack.  A milk crate fits perfect on the rack.  I found a matching women's bike for FMC as well for Valentines.  She loves it.

[AquaMan]

I bought many of those paper baskets at OTASCO for $3.50 a pop. They fit well on the front of my chrome Huffy with the headlight, push button horn equipped tank and rear package carrier with red tail lights. The basket would hold about a hundred rubber band wrapped paper missiles (Tulsa Tribunes) tightly packed.

I was a lean, mean, paper delivery machine.