Downtown Densities (from S&J Discussion)

[Conan71]

Are you sure the pictures are correct?  Are you sure it's not a snake, insect, and other varmit infested overgrown jungle island?

The 20 foot pythons and malaria keep the population thinned out.

[bacjz00]

 It's possible because I see it happening in small, new, suburban towns in Europe.  It's possible because Tulsa itself once had high density, pedestrian/transit friendly areas.  In neither of those instances does it, or did it, require huge populations and or high property values.  

Portland did it and now Salt Lake City is doing it.  Yes both of those cities have constrained boundaries, part by choice, part by geographic circumstances.  But they learned lessons that can be very applicable to Tulsa.  Tulsa's city boundaries aren't going to change much and we know where the areas of future growth are and where we would want them to be.  Our comprehensive plan lays out many of those hoped for, higher density/pedestrian/transit friendly areas.  So much like SLC knows where their growth is going to be and where they want it, so do we. We will ever more be playing the "infill" game here in Tulsa.  How we play that game is key.  I have been interested in Salt Lake Cities experiences in this matter because they are a conservative city somewhat like Tulsa.  

Here is an excerpt from an article I recently ran across.... my bold



....In the course of solving that problem, the city ended up answering several other head-scratchers, like: How do you get buy-in for smart-growth policies from conservatives wary of urbanism? And, how do you make new greenfield development both sustainable and wildly popular?

At the Rail~Volution conference last week, Andrew Gruber, executive director of the Wasatch Front Regional Council, showcased the transit-centered solution that's now propelling development in Utah's capital city.

If official projections are right, the high quality of life and thriving economy of the Wasatch Front could invite population growth of more than 65 percent by 2040.

If the region continued along current growth trends, Gruber explained, it would add more than 300 square miles of development to meet the housing and commercial demand by 2040. Vehicle miles traveled would nearly double, from 49 million to more than 90 million per day, by 2030. By 2020, the cost of new infrastructure could balloon to more than $26 billion.

In just a few decades, a region known for its open space and outdoor lifestyle would be a mighty congested and costly place to call home......

Now, Salt Lake City is investing more, per capita, in new public transit than any other metro area in the country, and exporting ideas to the rest of the country.......

Starting in 2005, citizens and planners in the Wasatch Front evaluated different scenarios for growth, looking at the long-term consequences of each development pattern. Perhaps surprising for such a conservative state, the consensus that emerged included a set of progressive growth principles focused on efficient infrastructure, transportation and housing choice, and coordinated planning.

By following those guidelines, Wasatch Front residents could look forward to benefits like an 18 percent reduction in congestion (compared to the baseline projections).


......One model of this approach is the new Daybreak development, just southwest of Salt Lake City. "This community was planned with transportation choices in mind from the very beginning," Gruber explained. A rail line extending from downtown has two stops in the mixed-use development. The community design prioritized sidewalks and walkability, organizing the streets in a connected grid that makes it easy to get from Point A to Point B without having to navigate a maddening maze of cul-de-sacs that seem to go in circles.

Those simple principles have had a dramatic impact on how residents get around the mixed-use neighborhoods. For instance, in Daybreak, an incredible 88 percent of kids walk or bike to school, compared to just 17 percent in other neighborhoods in the region.

And folks are lining up to live there. In 2010, the National Homebuilders Association named it Community of the Year, and this year, real estate consulting firm Robert Charles Lessor recognized the development as the 11th best-selling community in the country. "Daybreak is the most successful housing development in the region, and one of most successful in the country," Gruber said. "It's not that everybody wants to live in this type of development, but there's a demand out there that's not being met... This is a model for greenfield development done in smart, sustainable way."




The work in Salt Lake could also benefit cities around the country. As part of its HUD grant, the Wasatch Front Regional Council is using its experience to help other governments and citizens overcome two major barriers to sustainable development: lack of information and antiquated zoning requirements.

On the zoning front, the council is working on a form-based code that doesn't splinter development into commercial areas and residential areas. "It focuses on the form of the building, instead," Gruber said. "So, in a particular area you might want two- to three-story buildings with a certain set back from the streets, and whatever the market will bear is OK, as long as it fits the character of the neighborhood... That model will be available to folks across the country."
http://dc.streetsblog.org/2011/10/24/how-salt-lake-city-became-a-leader-in-transit-oriented-development/








 

Sorry William I wsa only really referring to the quality of development, not necessarily the relative density of the development. 

[TheArtist]

Go back to the first two posts in this thread. Then compare what SLC did and you see that the new development they tout has as its centerpiece, a school. It attracts young people because it is not only convenient but offers entertainment for young adults, education for their kids, common sense zoning and convenient mass trans. IOW, you can grow with this neighborhood as your interests change and not have to move out because some new club or shopping center moved nearby or because your family dynamics changed.

I like the thought process involved but I think its more than conservative views of urbanism that is at play in Tulsa. Its a paradigm shift that is necessary here because we are not hemmed in by geography but by political negativism and class distinctions.

For instance, even when we do infill its in a suburban manner. We tear out homes on a grid pattern, create a cul-de-sac, wall it off and restrict entry with a gate. That is because of the fears of common folk that drove people to the burbs in the first place AND the builders who only see a grid layout as meaning fewer lots to sell. Then the residents all send their kids to private schools to avoid the...you know...problems the public school systems have.

I do see your point though. Mass transit and forms zoning actually can be the impetus. I would simply add that a unique public school system is necessary as well.

I absolutely get what your saying about the schools and such.  Was really hoping the FinTube site could have been a magnet arts/sciences school and the school thing is something we should also work on.  But the city just spent what 8mill to expand another parking garage and they are talking about more of them (something for the Brady, something for by the PAC? And then other developers because there isn't any transit nearby have to also build more parking, etc. I think part of my frustration stems from, well, notice in that article they said SLC opted for a "transit-centered" solution.  Our downtown is growing, but we have opted for a "parking garage" centered solution.  Rather than having a starter, circulator route with a dedicated downtown bus, for instance, getting people from the parking we already have to each budding new area, and building on that system of development,,, we have opted to spend that money instead on a parking garage here, another there, then another, and another, etc.  The city IS spending money on this particular issue, and will spend more to take care of the "parking problems", my concern here focuses on what they are spending it on "parking instead of transit" and the path that is inevitably leading us down.  

[AquaMan]

Pull together a group of downtown businesses who stand to benefit from a dedicated circulator route and would help subsidize it and I'll operate it and provide the drivers.

edit: I have a CDL. I'll even drive the route. Every 20 minutes on evenings wed-sat to start. Bill White sort of did that for years.