(PROJECT) A Gathering Place For Tulsa

[davideinstein]

Yep, Tulsa has plenty of fine parks, parks of all sizes from big to small neighborhood parks.

And adding more is just fine in my book.

[sauerkraut]

Any project that doesn't benefit kimchi's  little myopic world is not worth doing.

Any Section 8 project is always worth doing.

[sauerkraut]

What projects?

The Projects on Peoria & 61st.

[Hoss]

The Projects on Peoria & 61st.

Myopic.  Yep.  Did your parents have any children that lived?

[Townsend]

Low water dams by 2021.  Watcha got Kirby?

[Townsend]

Water in the River by 2021?

http://kwgs.com/post/water-river-2021

If all goes according to plan, Tulsans could see water in the Arkansas River — permanently — by mid-2021.

A big project on the river is closer to getting started, as improvements to Zink Dam should get permit approval from the Army Corps of Engineers in the next two weeks.

Vision 2025 Program Director Kirby Crowe said Corps approval is important for more than that one project.

"River Parks has accepted all the permit conditions," Crowe said. "It's been nearly a two-year process with the regulatory agencies during the permitting time, and this sets the example for all of the low-water dam projects."

The permit covers improvements to the dam itself and changes to the shoreline that are part of the Gathering Place park design.

Approval of the Zink project may open the door to low-water dams in Sand Springs and at the Tulsa-Jenks border. Altogether, they mean water in the river all the time.

Crowe said the Corps will have to approve the projects separately and as a whole, however.

"There will also be an Environmental Impact Statement document done, a NEPA [National Environmental Policy Act] document that addresses the cumulative impacts of all of the projects," Crowe said.

The total estimated cost of the dams was $163.5 million in 2010. Tulsa City Council's River Infrastructure Task Force has asked for updated cost estimates.

At its second meeting, held Thursday, the task force went over a 2012 report from the River Development Task Force. Architect Herb Fritz was chair of the 2012 task force. He said the city has always been good at planning river development but hasn't always been able to follow through.

"There were some opportunities to do some things many, many years ago that certainly would have helped us in terms of development now," Fritz said. "Right now, we have to go back and rebuild a dam that was built in the '70s. But it's been too long. Something else should have been done, maybe in the '90s."

Fritz said Tulsa can still implement many of the 2012 task force's ideas and take full advantage of the Arkansas River.

[sauerkraut]

My big issue with the gathering place is developments like that and others like the river dams always end up with  more taxes and turn into a perpetual thing that never ends. When  A "Temp" tax is about to expire they always hurry up and ask for a extention then another extention on the extention, til the temp tax finally is made perm. They build one thing thing and want to do more or go back to the first thing and make it better. This all works out to be a perpetual thing. I'd like to keep most of the RiverSide area undeveloped and wild in it's natural state with nothing more than a trail running thru it so people can see the natural wildlife in action. Why build up and choke out the river area?  Besides River Parks in it's natural state left alone costs no tax  money and that's a good thing.

[Conan71]

My big issue with thye gathering place is developments like that and others like the river dams always end up with  more taxes and turn into a perpetual thing that never ends. When  A "Temp" tax is about to expire they always hurry up and ask for a extention then another extention on the extention, til the temp tax finally is made perm. They build one thing thing and want to do more or go back to the first thing and make it better. This all works out to be a perpetual thing. I'd like to keep most of the RiverSide area undeveloped and wild in it's natural state with nothing more than a trail running thru it so people can see the natural wildlife in action. Why build up and choke out the river area?  Besides River Parks in it's natural state left alone costs no tax  money and that's a good thing.

What part of "privately funded" and future maintenance costs being set aside are you struggling with?

[RecycleMichael]

  Besides River Parks in it's natural state left alone costs no tax  money and that's a good thing.

Do you ever tire of being wrong?

Riverparks gets funding from both the City and the County. This year the City paid in $737,000 and the County paid in $635,000. That is on top of funds used to maintain the levees, provide enforcement duties, and using bond issued funds for dam repairs this year.

[swake]

My big issue with thye gathering place is developments like that and others like the river dams always end up with  more taxes and turn into a perpetual thing that never ends. When  A "Temp" tax is about to expire they always hurry up and ask for a extention then another extention on the extention, til the temp tax finally is made perm. They build one thing thing and want to do more or go back to the first thing and make it better. This all works out to be a perpetual thing. I'd like to keep most of the RiverSide area undeveloped and wild in it's natural state with nothing more than a trail running thru it so people can see the natural wildlife in action. Why build up and choke out the river area?  Besides River Parks in it's natural state left alone costs no tax  money and that's a good thing.

Because if the river were in it's natural state midtown would flood every other year. Natural has long past.

[SXSW]

The article is confusing, all three dams will be finished by 2021?  They are working on Zink Dam right now. 

[TheArtist]

The article is confusing, all three dams will be finished by 2021?  They are working on Zink Dam right now.  

My understanding (through other sources) is that the Zink dam is the only dam that is the actual topic of the "permanent water in the river" and that the "new" Zink dam should be done by 2021.  I also think they are intentionally keeping things vague, but not sure why?  My first guess is that they hope they can begin to shift the conversation just enough, through some clever wording (this is step one in the "pivot"), to make it a positive for them.  Currently the Zink dam leaks, thus is why Zink Lake is not being counted as "permanently" full of water.  Once the new dam that is 3' higher is in place... then we will permanently have water in the river! Voila!  Any assumptions of other dams in the river exist, via the vagueness, through the hopes and imaginations of the public filling in intentional blanks, not by what is actually being said or done. Get it?  And even then, I am not sure they have all the funding, in place, right now for even the Zink Dam, but they do have to get it before the permit they now have to build the 1 new Zink dam expires. 

[dbacksfan 2.0]

My big issue

No, Uncle Kimchi, you don't have issues, you volumes.

[BKDotCom]

Another pledge:
$10 from Chapman foundation
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/chapman-foundation-giving-million-to-gathering-place/article_186bc3a8-7e16-11e3-8a93-0019bb30f31a.html

not sure how that translate to future taxpayer burden

[Vision 2025]

Low water dams by 2021.  Watcha got Kirby?

Sorry for the delay, that is the schedule forward if construction funding is provided.  Presently the 404 permit for Zink has been accepted (it could be completed 3 years form going forward) and the environmental permitting for three other locations (Sand Springs, S. Tulsa/Jenks, and Bixby) are set to proceeding in a programmatic EIS methodology.