(PROJECT) A Gathering Place For Tulsa

[davideinstein]

Yeah, I can't wait for this. All of my friends are excited too. Parks are awesome, every great city has them.

[Conan71]

Sadly if the owner still wants that kind of price it would have to be a larger public project, or funded by Kaiser.  I could see the city doing another river tax vote in the next couple years and it could include funds to develop a larger River West Park.  OKC spent millions in acquisition costs for its new downtown park so it is not unprecedented. 

Hopefully any kind of larger investment in a public park by the river on the west bank eventually includes a redevelopment of the adjacent government housing.  Many U.S. cities have torn down their sprawling Section 8 apartments and redeveloped them into actual neighborhoods with a mix of houses and apartments with a restored street grid.  The west bank will never be a popular area but it could be nicer than what is there now, and the area along 23rd is a gateway into the city off 75.

The price of that parcel was one of the image problems the '07 tax proposal faced.  It appeared someone was getting greased pretty good when that parcel alone accounted for nearly 20% of the public part of the expenditures for the project.  I don't see the public housing going away any time soon considering they've done extensive rehab on the apartments north of 23rd, and they are planning on building more rabbit hutches apartments in the Riverwest Park auxiliary parking lot on the west side of 23rd. 

IIRC, as a part of the new City Hall bargain, the city was supposed to divest of certain properties and consolidate which would have vacated the COT M & E center to the south of 23rd.  Turns out, city kept that and I believe the Osage Tribe now owns or occupies the old Downtown Airpark which was where the city was supposed to consolidate their M & E functions...if memory serves me correctly.  I've had a Marshall's or three in that time.

[sauerkraut]

To me this just seems like more frills and sqandered money. I would rather have a 1 penny or so cut in sales tax and forget about all those projects. It looks like they will have to riase sales taxes again, what's next a "Vision 3"? I lived in 5 states and seen so much waste on the local level with pet projects, one example is the Bob Kerry Pedestrian bridge in Omaha connecting Nebraska to Iowa built in 2008, yes the bridge was needed and it connected the Omaha network of jog-bike trails to the trails in Iowa. What they did was build and design the most fancy frilly bridge they could, for millions of dollars more than what a simple straight brige would of cost. They could of made a simple bridge and put the millions of dollars saved in the bank for a rainy day or for other needed projects, or better yet cut the tax rate. Every city seems to have all sorts of pet projects that no one really needs or wants yet they insist on building them.. http://www.councilbluffs-ia.gov/index.aspx?NID=260

[Conan71]

To me this just seems like more frills and sqandered money. I would rather have a 1 penny or so cut in sales tax and forget about all those projects. It looks like they will have to riase sales taxes again, what's next a "Vision 3"? I lived in 5 states and seen so much waste on the local level with pet projects, one example is the Bob Kerry Pedestrian bridge in Omaha connecting Nebraska to Iowa built in 2008, yes the bridge was needed and it connected the Omaha network of jog-bike trails to the trails in Iowa. What they did was build and design the most fancy frilly bridge they could, for millions of dollars more than what a simple straight brige would of cost. They could of made a simple bridge and put the millions of dollars saved in the bank for a rainy day or for other needed projects, or better yet cut the tax rate. Every city seems to have all sorts of pet projects that no one really needs or wants yet they insist on building them.. http://www.councilbluffs-ia.gov/index.aspx?NID=260

How is it "squandered money" if the Kaiser Foundation is funding the project and paying for future maintenance?

Cities have employed iconic architecture into their functional infrastructure needs for many millennia it's one of the things that gives each city their own identity and helps attract others to visit the city. 

What is the function of the St. Louis Arch?  Nothing other than a tourist destination.  What is the function of the Washington Monument? Nothing other than a tourist destination.  Tourism helps bring outside dollars into communities to help build the tax base without making more demands on the amount of taxes needed from the local citizens to keep the city running. 

[Red Arrow]

To me this just seems like more frills and sqandered money. I would rather have a 1 penny or so cut in sales tax and forget about all those projects.

Did you grow up in a Soviet Block country during the cold war?  Nostalgic for the good old days?

[patric]

One thing neglected by SXSW, is that concrete plant is available for a golden handshake of $50 to $60 million, at least it was in 2007.

Tulsa has played the Eminent Domain card for much less, like when Albertsons wanted to demolish a neighborhood to build a short-lived store at 15th & Lewis.

[TheArtist]

To me this just seems like more frills and sqandered money. I would rather have a 1 penny or so cut in sales tax and forget about all those projects...

What projects?

[Conan71]

Tulsa has played the Eminent Domain card for much less, like when Albertsons wanted to demolish a neighborhood to build a short-lived store at 15th & Lewis.

Short-lived?  I think Albertson's was in that space for 10 years before they ceased operations in Tulsa.  Reasor's still runs a store there.  IIRC, what's there now is better than the remaining pocket neighborhood that was there.

[sauerkraut]

What projects?

Other Projects like  the Route 66 rebuilding project they are just now starting to talk about- what about Zink Lake or more dams on the Arkansas River to make a new lake or a Island in the River? The rebuilding River Side Drive and  Things like that to name a few. We have a very high sales tax as it is. Sure Kaiser may pay for The Gathering Place, but trust me it'll still end up costing taxpayers money in the end (plus maintenance of the area). Maybe it's just me and my old fashioned ways but I'd rather have a cut in taxes instead of more city frills, cut our sales tax by a penny and please no Vision 3 with another hike in sales tax or a extension of current tax hikes when they expire. Columbus, Ohio had  issues with stadiums in the 1990's  the voters kept turning it down so they just went ahead and built a new stadium and a new arena anyhow. They also knocked down a perfectly good old time stadium ball park  so they can build another one. The city of Columbus, Ohio also has a 2% Income Tax, yep Ohio residents pay federal income taxes, state income taxes and city income taxes and in some case they even have school income taxes even though prop. taxes are sky high. I lived in 5 states and seen it all.  If they build the Gathering Place I hope it all works out, but I'm just no big fan of doing it.

[sauerkraut]

Short-lived?  I think Albertson's was in that space for 10 years before they ceased operations in Tulsa.  Reasor's still runs a store there.  IIRC, what's there now is better than the remaining pocket neighborhood that was there.

No doubt, beats more neighborhood blight and decay.

[sauerkraut]

Yeah, I can't wait for this. All of my friends are excited too. Parks are awesome, every great city has them.

Yep, Tulsa has plenty of fine parks, parks of all sizes from big to small neighborhood parks.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

What projects?

Any project that doesn't benefit kimchi's  little myopic world is not worth doing.

[Conan71]

Any project that doesn't benefit kimchi's  little myopic world is not worth doing.

Uncle Kimchi...brilliant!!!

[AquaMan]

Other Projects like  the Route 66 rebuilding project they are just now starting to talk about- what about Zink Lake or more dams on the Arkansas River to make a new lake or a Island in the River? The rebuilding River Side Drive and  Things like that to name a few. We have a very high sales tax as it is. Sure Kaiser may pay for The Gathering Place, but trust me it'll still end up costing taxpayers money in the end (plus maintenance of the area). Maybe it's just me and my old fashioned ways but I'd rather have a cut in taxes instead of more city frills, cut our sales tax by a penny and please no Vision 3 with another hike in sales tax or a extension of current tax hikes when they expire. Columbus, Ohio had  issues with stadiums in the 1990's  the voters kept turning it down so they just went ahead and built a new stadium and a new arena anyhow. They also knocked down a perfectly good old time stadium ball park  so they can build another one. The city of Columbus, Ohio also has a 2% Income Tax, yep Ohio residents pay federal income taxes, state income taxes and city income taxes and in some case they even have school income taxes even though prop. taxes are sky high. I lived in 5 states and seen it all.  If they build the Gathering Place I hope it all works out, but I'm just no big fan of doing it.

He's seen it all and we should trust him. Really. 

Its not what you know Sauer, that hurts you. Its what you don't know that you don't know.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

The West Bank River Park is hosting the Polar Bear Plunge on New Years Day at 1:PM  so it's a popular place for Tulsans. I'm thinking about doing the Polar Bear plunge again this year- I did it last year. The West Bank Park seems fine to me, there is  lots of parking, open areas, shelters, trails, so it's an   great place to  gather, Here's an idea,  why can't Kaiser pump money into that area for improvements more parking, make it bigger- the land is already there? Oh well it's JMO.

Uncle Kimchi, here's the event you need to participate in and I hope you come in First!