(PROJECT) A Gathering Place For Tulsa

[heironymouspasparagus]

Tulsa Place.....

[RecycleMichael]

George Park

The River George

GK Park

[carltonplace]

Tulsa Happy Fun Time Place

[Townsend]

A river runs through George

George Gorge

"no, Jackass, this was not paid for with your taxes" park

[AquaMan]

We could do a developer name.....The Greens at Walnut Park (because there are no Walnut trees to be seen)

Or a founders name......Kaiser's Kingdom Kome  (something wrong with that, lemme think)

How about something classy......C'est Homage de la Kaisere'

A local descriptive name.....Tulsa Homeless Depot

Here's one.....Gar Gardens

Similar to Gathering Place......That place by the river that used to be flat

Seriously, New York was comfortable with Central Park. We already have one of those, how about keeping it simple and clean......Riverside Park.

[Conan71]

Tulsa Happy Fun Time Place

I thought that was Chucky Cheese's.  The pizza pimpin' rat.

[AdamsHall]

Article in the TW today indicates Phase I of park would be 58.37 acres in size.  It also notes that there are two more planned phases that would "bring the total park space to nearly 100 acres."  Can anyone shed light on what Phases I and II will include and where they are to be located?  Thanks.

[sgrizzle]

Article in the TW today indicates Phase I of park would be 58.37 acres in size.  It also notes that there are two more planned phases that would "bring the total park space to nearly 100 acres."  Can anyone shed light on what Phases I and II will include and where they are to be located?  Thanks.

In a general sense, Phase 1 is north of the pedestrian bridge. Phase 2 and 3 move south where the 31st St parking lot is, and where the apartments south of 31st are.

[sgrizzle]

My recollection is the "powers the be" were beginning the process of putting together a package in a fashion similar to what GT has done in the last year.  The group that put forth "The Channels" pushed the timeline up and forced the city/county/chamber to do something immediately.  That led to the poorly marketed package that was placed on the ballot.

Seven years later I still hear people lament or express joy The Channels project/building condos in the river tax wasn't passed.  Amazing considering the project on the ballot had nothing to do with The Channels.

This.

[Stanley1]

In a general sense, Phase 1 is north of the pedestrian bridge. Phase 2 and 3 move south where the 31st St parking lot is, and where the apartments south of 31st are.

It's a little more than just that, if I recall.  I think there are buildings set to go up north of the Pedestrian Bridge, that won't go up in Phase 1.  I'm not 100% on that, but I seem to recall that being the case.

[DTowner]

The project was a moving target with more crap added weekly in order to buy votes.  It was also being proposed er pushed well in advance of studies by the Corps of Engineers as to what could or could not be done in terms of development and water impoundment.  It also proposed an egregious golden handshake to the owner of the concrete plant at the expense of taxpayers when we had an M & E facility which was supposed to be moved to the old Downtown Airpark as a part of the agreement on putting City Hall in the Borg Cube.  

One excuse I heard for the timing was there was some fear of an impending recession and if they waited much longer, it would never get passed.  History shows the financial apocalypse happened about nine months later.

It didn't help the image with voters that no V-2025 money had been spent on the river at that point and the subsequent spin to try and mitigate those sort of comments left many feeling lied to or talked down to.  That led many voters to believe this might be one more package of broken promises.

In retrospect, V-2025 has been a major bonanza for Tulsa County.  This coming from someone who voted against it.  I'd vote for an extension if it meant more of what we have gotten from the first package.  Well subtracting the the contribution to Michael Sager's First Street Lofts.  

While I think The Channels muddied the waters in voters' minds on the failed river vote, I think the real problem was it came too soon after V2025.  The V2025 skeptics were still predicting gloom and doom and most of the projects, in particular the BOK Center, had not yet been completed and proven successful.  Even with those problems, however, as I recall a majority of Tulsans voted yes, but it was defeated primarily by voters in Tulsa County towns with no connection to the river (Owasso and BA).

I'm still concerned about the rush to grab the extention of the V2025 tax without a full discussion and consideration of what else that tax money might be used for to improve Tulsa (transit, housing, etc.).  Unfortunatley, "putting water in the river" is perceived as a legacy making project by politicians.

Whatever happens to the river itself, The Gathering Place is truly a transformational project for this city in a way that I'm not sure a lot of Tulsans have fullly grasped.

[Conan71]

While I think The Channels muddied the waters in voters' minds on the failed river vote, I think the real problem was it came too soon after V2025.  The V2025 skeptics were still predicting gloom and doom and most of the projects, in particular the BOK Center, had not yet been completed and proven successful.  Even with those problems, however, as I recall a majority of Tulsans voted yes, but it was defeated primarily by voters in Tulsa County towns with no connection to the river (Owasso and BA).

I'm still concerned about the rush to grab the extention of the V2025 tax without a full discussion and consideration of what else that tax money might be used for to improve Tulsa (transit, housing, etc.).  Unfortunatley, "putting water in the river" is perceived as a legacy making project by politicians.

Whatever happens to the river itself, The Gathering Place is truly a transformational project for this city in a way that I'm not sure a lot of Tulsans have fullly grasped.

If the river proposal had been done by the city it would have happened.  The reason V-2025 succeeded at the polls is there was grease for every municipality in it.  There was little or nothing other than unsubstantiated concepts for BA, Bixby, Jenks, and Sand Springs.  Owasso, Glennpool, and Collinsville stood to gain nothing within their towns.

[AquaMan]

While I think The Channels muddied the waters in voters' minds on the failed river vote, I think the real problem was it came too soon after V2025.  The V2025 skeptics were still predicting gloom and doom and most of the projects, in particular the BOK Center, had not yet been completed and proven successful.  Even with those problems, however, as I recall a majority of Tulsans voted yes, but it was defeated primarily by voters in Tulsa County towns with no connection to the river (Owasso and BA).

I'm still concerned about the rush to grab the extention of the V2025 tax without a full discussion and consideration of what else that tax money might be used for to improve Tulsa (transit, housing, etc.).  Unfortunatley, "putting water in the river" is perceived as a legacy making project by politicians.

Whatever happens to the river itself, The Gathering Place is truly a transformational project for this city in a way that I'm not sure a lot of Tulsans have fullly grasped.

I think you can be sure that a lot of Tulsans have not fully grasped its transformational potential. Or its economic potential. Yes, every major city has a hallmark park worthy of revisiting. I remember one with sailboats and kayaks in Minneapolis near downtown. But our taxpayers have seen many projects thru the years over hyped and underwhelming in reality. Thus comments range from its boring to its too Disneyesque. A true indication that its going to be a judgement call based on age and demographics as to its value cause there are no numbers to back up the predictions of economic benefit. Got kids? Phenomenal. Walk your dog? Outstanding. Use a walker or arrive on the bus? Maybe not so impressive. Live nearby and deal with the flotsam and jetsam? Irritating. Nonetheless, its practically free and they have little to complain about.

However, the Gathering is a project of its own and the Water in The River movement to me is only mildly connected to it. There is no physical connection, other than the pedestrian bridge and no opportunity to experience the river or use it imaginatively. Its just adding an expensive coat of paint to the background wall a fine piece of art is hanging on. It won't take long for folks to realize that the real benefit of the dams is to the casino and nearby Jenks.

No doubt the ponds will fill with sediment and no provision for dredging has been described. Soon the fertilizer and salt runoff will give them a nice green hue until, God forbid, they are scoured by one of those 100-300 year flood scenarios.

[Townsend]

Isn't a big part of the plan to make the river accessible to park goers by sloping the land into the water?

[rebound]

However, the Gathering is a project of its own and the Water in The River movement to me is only mildly connected to it. There is no physical connection, other than the pedestrian bridge and no opportunity to experience the river or use it imaginatively. Its just adding an expensive coat of paint to the background wall a fine piece of art is hanging on. It won't take long for folks to realize that the real benefit of the dams is to the casino and nearby Jenks.

No doubt the ponds will fill with sediment and no provision for dredging has been described. Soon the fertilizer and salt runoff will give them a nice green hue until, God forbid, they are scoured by one of those 100-300 year flood scenarios.

No physical connection?  Part of the park goes right down to the water (Zink Lake) North of the pedestrian bridge.  There's even a section called Lake view Lawn, or something like that.  Assuming the Zink Lake dam gets fixed correctly and the danger element is alleviated, why wouldn't we see people kayaking on Zink Lake, or even kayak, canoe, paddle boat rentals, etc, along the lake?

Regarding sediment, that's a valid point, but my understanding is that part of repairing the gates on the dam is to allow them to be opened and to flush sediment down stream.  And somebody else help me out, but when lived at Westport in the late '80s, Zink Lake was full all the time and I don't remember it being massively polluted or overtly green.  I do remember the rowing crews out on it all the time, which was pretty cool.