(PROJECT) A Gathering Place For Tulsa

[rdj]

They got the Tiger grants on the second application.

Ah, I thought it wasn't enough to cover.  Good to hear.  Either way, the project isn't entirely privately funded.

[guido911]

The nature of both of these projects involves public infrastructure and/or public funding.  That's why citizens at large have a say.

You keep ignoring the fact that Simon has said they will be seeking a TIF for site improvements.  Their development will, without a doubt, drive more traffic to an area which does not presently have the infrastructure to support the traffic.  Couple this with additional development between I-44 and Jenks and highway 75 will require additional lanes.

What is the true net economic impact of this development between TIFs and state-paid DOT expenditures to expand and improve 75 and access the arterials intersecting 75?  There will need to be millions and millions in improvements.

I get the "I'm a taxpayer, I therefore have a say" argument. I acknowledged it over in the TM thread. I am just not impressed with non-property owners hitching their wagon onto an issue with such a generic foundation. And be honest, are you really all that excited over a damned TIF? Sounds like contrived pretense or a way to get one's nose under the tent to me.

[guido911]

Heck, we live in a city with a metro of nearly a million and I can't even get "people walking around and parking in front of my store at all hours".... in the middle of downtown! Egads!

Come on. Business pedestrian traffic and residential neighborhood pedestrian traffic is a wee bit different. But I hear ya.

[Red Arrow]

And be honest, are you really all that excited over a damned TIF?

Why should I support a business development I don't want with a TIFF?  I don't use Turkey Mountain except as a reporting point to Riverside/Jones Tower.  We don't need another development there.  I've seen too much useless business development on Memorial.  What good is it?  Cutting down trees for garbage business development is too rampant around here.  Do something worthwhile and I could (but probably wouldn't) support it.



Did this get mixed up with the Turkey Mountain thread regarding TIFFs?

I support the sidewalk but not the Outlet Mall at Turkey Mountain.  Think whatever you want.

[LandArchPoke]

I get the "I'm a taxpayer, I therefore have a say" argument. I acknowledged it over in the TM thread. I am just not impressed with non-property owners hitching their wagon onto an issue with such a generic foundation. And be honest, are you really all that excited over a damned TIF? Sounds like contrived pretense or a way to get one's nose under the tent to me.

Are you familiar with the Power & Light District in KC and how the city helped subsidize it. Well guess what, they had to cut different department budgets for several years in order to make the payments on those bonds. So yes I am that excited over a TIF, because one bad investment and a city who already can barely afford to pay it's police and firemen or have paper for it's students can cause major ripple effects if in 5 years this development go belly up and Simon walks away because of many reason stated in the other thread.

It's important to do things correctly the first time, and if we just burry our heads in the sand because "private property owners can do what they please" then we are asking for financial problems later down the road. Especially for a Mayor who claims to be so fiscal conservative and he wants to wait a few years and build a sidewalk when construction and material prices have risen and shut down Riverside again that will cause delays (delays = lost productivity). Forgive me for caring about doing things correctly, and not waisting mine or your tax dollars.  

[heironymouspasparagus]

Why should I support a business development I don't want with a TIFF?  I don't use Turkey Mountain except as a reporting point to Riverside/Jones Tower.  We don't need another development there.  I've seen too much useless business development on Memorial.  What good is it?  Cutting down trees for garbage business development is too rampant around here.  Do something worthwhile and I could (but probably wouldn't) support it.



Did this get mixed up with the Turkey Mountain thread regarding TIFFs?

I support the sidewalk but not the Outlet Mall at Turkey Mountain.  Think whatever you want.

Careful, Red.... you are getting dangerously close to my rant view of "growth for growth's sake" and how bad it is for so many places!!

[Conan71]

I get the "I'm a taxpayer, I therefore have a say" argument. I acknowledged it over in the TM thread. I am just not impressed with non-property owners hitching their wagon onto an issue with such a generic foundation. And be honest, are you really all that excited over a damned TIF? Sounds like contrived pretense or a way to get one's nose under the tent to me.

Actually yes and no it's not contrived.  It's one of many reasons I think the location for the outlet mall sucks.  Let's say the access to the mall is contorted enough for travelers on I-44 that they simply don't bother shopping there and the majority of incoming revenue comes from people who live in Tulsa.  All we've managed to do then is cannibalize sales tax dollars from other collection points within the city.  In case anyone thinks "he's only saying that because he's a selfish mountain biker who likes to trespass on other's property" I've been consistent on this position ever since the River Tax issue in 2007.  That was the same argument I made against a TIF and any sort of public funding for the proposed Branson Landing-like retail project which was to go where the concrete plant is.  That was aside from the fact we were going to pay the owner of that land $50 mil.  By comparison, at $3.2 mil, Simon is getting a smoking deal on their parcel.

[swake]

Dewey Caves!

http://www.ktul.com/story/27871057/mayor-changes-plans-oks-riverside-sidewalk

[dioscorides]

Tulsa World version of the story:

Mayor agrees to allow sidewalk along Riverside Drive

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/gatheringplace/mayor-agrees-to-allow-sidewalk-along-riverside-drive/article_a824141d-2a11-535f-81a9-eea256132bf3.html

By KEVIN CANFIELD and JARREL WADE World Staff Writers

Mayor Dewey Bartlett announced this afternoon that he has agreed to the construction of a sidewalk on the east side of Riverside Drive near A Gathering Place for Tulsa park.

The sidewalk will run, as originally planned, from Veterans Park to the north boundary of A Gathering Place.

"The plan employs a combination of methods to calm traffic in a scalable manner," Bartlett said in a statement.

The highlights of the design changes include:

   A tree lawn to give at least seven feet of distance between motorists and pedestrians
   Driving lanes narrowed to 11 feet
   Traffic signal/crosswalk at the main entrance of the Gathering Place near the 2700 block of Riverside Drive
   Enhanced pedestrian crosswalks with clearly distinguishable striping and colored concrete pavement at intersections from 21st - 41st
   Eight-inch curbs to minimize the risk of vehicles jumping the curb in the direction of the sidewalk
   Extensive street striping and various types of signage to give motorists notice they are entering a park area
   And as originally proposed, the speed limit will be posted at 35 mph
   Installation of conduit during the construction phase to provide for future traffic signals, if needed

Bartlett nixed the original sidewalk proposal last year after meeting with some neighborhood residents, who objected to the project.

After a public meeting where the overwhelming majority of attendees expressed support for the sidewalk, Bartlett agreed to study the issue further.

The mayor has consistently said he he considered several factors in making his decision but that his primary objection to the sidewalk was that it would be dangerous for pedestrians using it.

City Councilor Blake Ewing, who hosted several discussions regarding the sidewalk, said he thinks the outcome is better for having gone through controversy. He also thanked Bartlett and other city officials for including him in the discussions to resolve the issue.

"You get people collaborating and sharing ideas and opinions on something like this and you end up with a better result," Ewing said. "This is how it's supposed to work. This issue actually caused people to take a bigger look at pedestrian access ... it brought it to the forefront of our conversation."

Supporters of the sidewalk included a large showing from Tulsa's Young Professionals, which largely dominated group discussions on the issue.

Shagah Zakerion, TYPros executive director, said she hopes their role in the discussion and support was a sign of what's to come out of the group.

"I'm insanely proud of what we were able to accomplish," Zakerion said. "It really just will encourage us."

Zakerion said she was grateful to city officials for allowing opportunities for TYPros and hundreds of other residents to show their support.

Reconstruction of Riverside Drive is not expected to begin until at least this summer.

Phase 1 of A Gathering Place will stretch from approximately the 2700 block of Riverside Drive to 31st Street on the east side of the street and the 2700 block to 34th Street along the west side of Riverside.

The project is underway and is expected to be completed in late 2017.

[ZYX]

In all honesty, that sidewalk looks great. Thats a great way to help with place making.

[guido911]

Anyone have an extra $8M laying around? Those cheapskates at KFF are playing hardball. 

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/gatheringplace/city-needs-million-to-fund-public-infrastructure-linked-to-gathering/article_f3ad9f3a-8ceb-5bce-ae1e-fbcb9782a321.html

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Anyone have an extra $8M laying around? Those cheapskates at KFF are playing hardball. 

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/gatheringplace/city-needs-million-to-fund-public-infrastructure-linked-to-gathering/article_f3ad9f3a-8ceb-5bce-ae1e-fbcb9782a321.html

[Townsend]

Gathering Place Construction to Hamper Riverside Traffic

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/gathering-place-construction-hamper-riverside-traffic

The City of Tulsa and A Gathering Place for Tulsa announced the schedule for future road and trail closures and the emergency demolition of the pedestrian bridge over Riverside Drive near the construction of Tulsa's new park, which will transform nearly 100 acres along the Arkansas Riverfront into a world-class park for the citizens of Tulsa. Closures will be clearly marked and alternate routes will be provided for commuters.

"We are ready to begin City infrastructure projects in coordination with the construction of the Gathering Place. The emergency demolition of the pedestrian bridge on Riverside Drive is of utmost priority. We have placed netting around the bridge as a safeguard while crews work on the nearby trails. The bridge demolition is scheduled for this weekend, in conjunction with upcoming park construction," said Paul Zachary, City of Tulsa Director of Engineering Services.

Road and trail closures and the demolition of the pedestrian bridge will ensure safety of pedestrians and drivers while allowing construction operations to work as efficiently as possible. The road and trail closings are as follows:

February 28 at 6 a.m. until March 1 at 6 p.m.: Temporary closure of Riverside Drive between 31st Street and 21st Street, pedestrian and bike trail between 27th Street and 31st Street, and pedestrian and bike bridge over Riverside Drive due to emergency demolition

Week of March 9: River Parks Bike and Pedestrian Trail between 35th Street and 27th Street and east end of Pedestrian Bridge over the Arkansas River

Week of March 16: 31st Street between Riverside Drive and Boston Place closed to all traffic but local traffic will be accessible on 31st Street between Boston Court and Peoria Avenue

Week of July 13: Riverside Drive between 24th Street and 35th Street closed to all traffic   

Please Note: Until full closures listed above, there will be intermittent lane closures on Riverside Drive and trail closures between 24th Street and 35th Street to facilitate utility relocations and infrastructure work.

All trail and road closures will extend through the duration of the construction of the park which is expected to be completed in late 2017.

Wow...that's going to be a huge pain in my buttocks

[DowntownDan]

Closing the trail blows because I run it all the time.  Guess I can detour.

[Townsend]

Closing the trail blows because I run it all the time.  Guess I can detour.

I'm just going to say it...we should asphalt the river.  Once construction's done, try to put water in it and use the detour as a boat ramp.