(PROJECT) A Gathering Place For Tulsa

[Red Arrow]

Just another example of Oklahoma Fail.

Chomp-chomp.  Too bad the new bridge won't be what was promised. :-(

Building the new bridge to support light rail/trolley to the west side of the river would have been a Plus in my opinion.

[swake]

Chomp-chomp.  Too bad the new bridge won't be what was promised. :-(

Building the new bridge to support light rail/trolley to the west side of the river would have been a Plus in my opinion.

We already did that with the I-244 bridges. It sits unused.

[SXSW]

We already did that with the I-244 bridges. It sits unused.

It will be used at some point.  Likely HSR rather than light rail but it was smart to include the space for it when the 244 bridge was rebuilt.

[Red Arrow]

We already did that with the I-244 bridges. It sits unused.

I was thinking if we could ever get trolley service from downtown to the Gathering Place that it could cross the river and go south to Turkey Mountain (and maybe Jenks, or even Bixby) and north up the west side of the river for a big loop back to downtown.  There might be some difficulties riding on the UP/TSU rails with light rail trolleys.  I don't see a spot acceptable to riders to terminate light rail to meet with heavy rail though.  There's not enough pedestrian activity in the area.  People in Maple Ridge might accept a relatively quiet trolley but I would support them in opposing diesel heavy rail.  This is where I grew up: https://goo.gl/maps/s3DhnXtygqVTPYDQA

Looking at Google Maps, it appears most of the (former) Midland Valley right-of-way has not been dug up as far south as 141st in Bixby.  Rails are still evident a bit towards Bixby from Kimberly Clark.  Maybe good rail service from Bixby would reduce the desire for a bridge over the river at Yale. I don't envision taking rail to go shopping but it would be good for an evening downtown and for commuting.  It all depends on how many living in Jenks and Bixby would work where the rail goes.  Time for a new study?

With all the houses and apartments being built north-east of the river in Bixby and far south Tulsa, rail to that area may be a viable option by the time any rail service could be built. I know that traffic on Memorial is absurd and not just during the morning and evening commute.  Now that I am retired, I can adjust my travels to avoid traffic.  Sometimes I just don't go.  I cannot understand why there is so much northbound traffic on Memorial in the evening.  Does everyone in Bixby have an evening shift job in Tulsa?

[Red Arrow]

It will be used at some point.  Likely HSR rather than light rail but it was smart to include the space for it when the 244 bridge was rebuilt.

I agree. HSR between Tulsa and OKC will not be successful unless it terminates in downtown Tulsa.  I would like to see it continue to Kansas City and/or St Louis. Unless Tulsa can become a destination city, being the end of a spur line is a formula for failure.

Adding OKC to Albuquerque would be nice too.  It would provide a direct route to CA.

[patric]

I agree. HSR between Tulsa and OKC will not be successful unless it terminates in downtown Tulsa.  I would like to see it continue to Kansas City and/or St Louis.

I can remember the Auto Train from Tulsa to Chicago via STL.  Im betting more people would consider taking trains if their car were to tag along.

[Red Arrow]

I can remember the Auto Train from Tulsa to Chicago via STL.  Im betting more people would consider taking trains if their car were to tag along.

I forgot about Auto Trains. The time to load and unload the car might not make sense for a short trip but it could certainly be worth it for longer trips.  Tulsa to Chicago via I-44 & I-55 is about 10 hours per Google Maps.

There is still an AMTRAK Auto Train from Washington DC to Orlando FL.
https://www.amtrak.com/auto-train

[heironymouspasparagus]

I can remember the Auto Train from Tulsa to Chicago via STL.  Im betting more people would consider taking trains if their car were to tag along.

Good idea killed by you-know-who.

[Red Arrow]

Good idea killed by you-know-who.

GM, Firestone and Standard Oil (Transit holocaust) or someone else?

[heironymouspasparagus]

GM, Firestone and Standard Oil (Transit holocaust) or someone else?

Mostly GM.  

With supporting actions from the others...

[Jeff P]

Has anyone seen this business about Gathering Place suing a coffee shop in Shawnee with the same name, lol?

People are losing their s**t about it on social media because of the optics, of course. There's little to no detail as to why.  I'm no expert on trademark laws, but seems like I've read in the past that if you become aware that someone is using your trademark/brand and they refuse to change and you *don't* sue then you run risk of losing your trademark protection in future cases because you "let" another party use it in another instance....? Have no idea if that's what's going on here, but it seems pretty weird (who cares if a coffee shop in a small town 100 miles away has the same name?) so wondering if that's the case.

https://www.fox23.com/news/local/tulsas-gathering-place-files-lawsuit-against-oklahoma-coffee-shop-with-same-name/F5PELYFOU5APFOGDAIC7TU2FFI/

[shavethewhales]

Yeah, it's a bad look.

Speaking of bad looks, does anyone else feel that the Gathering Place just feels "off" now that the hype has faded and the shine has worn off?

I often ride up there on Sunday afternoons, and I just can't shake the vibe that this park missed the mark somehow. The boathouse never lets people rent canoes, and it's not like the pond provides much space for that activity anyway so the boats are basically just decorations and the boathouse is just an excuse to have a bit of AC and a nice patio. All of the wood throughout the park seems to be faded and deteriorating, as if they didn't use proper outdoor-rated wood and haven't stained or added preservative to anything. It looks like they have to replace all the wood furniture every few years.

A lot of the play areas are rarely open (especially the water play features), and there's signs of deterioration over there as well, although that is more understandable since the playground is at least used so heavily.

The natural-look flowerbeds are typically overgrown with grass and weeds, though there are a few places where the natural wildflowers come through and the butterflies seem to enjoy it at least. In some areas of the park they recently brushhogged the landscaping and it just looks bad. Without significant landscaping effort every single year, it's hard to keep up what the architects envisioned and it just becomes a massive weed patch.

And then there's all the rules: no dogs, no bikes, no roller blades, etc. In our largest public park. There's also a sand beach, but you can't enter the water and aren't even supposed to let your kids wade into it. It just feels weird to have so many constrictive rules for what is supposed to be a park. It's always felt like this is some billionaire's backyard that he just lets us play in rather than an actual Tulsa park.

I can't shake the feeling that if they had spent $100 million instead of $500 million we'd probably have a park that is just as good if not better and didn't feel so constrictive and over-done.

I think the same process is repeating for both the Discovery Center and the Bridge. There is a disconnect between what the actual end users want and what the designers are going for. It's like we are trying to make overzealous imitations of what we think world class facilities look like instead of building what we actually want.

[Jake]

I think the park is still great.

Agree that the lawsuit is stupid.

[SXSW]

There is definitely some wear and tear in the park which is to be expected with the large crowds and 3 years after opening.  IMO overall they do a fantastic job of keeping everything looking good, which has to be a monumental task considering how large it is and how many intricate details there are everywhere.  I haven't been to any other new public park in the U.S. that looks better from a design and maintenance perspective.

I think having the Discovery Lab open in December will be a milestone event as it will open up a whole new venue for kids and parents to experience along with the park, as well as permanent parking and landscaping in the southern portion of the park.  

Once the dam and bridge are open in 2023 they will be able to work on the river bank sections that have been fenced off.  The new dam will raise the water level by 3'.  That will make everything feel more connected.  I can't stand the chain link fence along there but get that it's an unfinished area.

I'm most interested in Phase 3 and what they will do with the land where the Crow Creek apartments used to be, which is supposed to be more of a mixed-use development.  That and the Crow Creek trail to Brookside which would be a public-private partnership between the City and GKFF.  The first portion of that trail under Riverside will open this December with the Discovery Lab.

[Jake]

I routinely visit Scissortail Park and it's a night and day difference between it and the Gathering Place. Really puts into perspective how nice it is.