A Water Shed Day

[Hoss]

I'm sure you will agree that not all political trends are the right thing to do.  This one just happens to be in your "agree" category.

It forces people to choose between two dysfunctional parties in order to participate in the system. How can that make anyone feel like their vote counts?

Sent from my Atrix4G with fat fingers

[Red Arrow]

It forces people to choose between two dysfunctional parties in order to participate in the system. How can that make anyone feel like their vote counts?

Please note that I said we should make some changes to make it easier for an independent to run. 

With an open primary you are still choosing between two dysfunctional parties.  You just don't choose which one until election day.  As a non-party member you have no choice in who is running in the primary.  How does that make you feel like your vote counts.  The purpose of a primary is for a group of supposedly like minded people to put forth one candidate to the general election rather than a bunch.  I think Tulsa had an election for mayor once with nearly a dozen candidates.  How do you feel your vote counts there?  If one party has an unopposed candidate that just tells me that other like minded groups or non-minded (independents) are too apathetic to put someone up.  Maybe it's a feeling of futility.  The general election is the real election.

I can see the logic of Conan's viewpoint that a mass exodus from the parties will cause them to wake up.  Well maybe it will.  In the mean time, as a non-party member, you have no say in who runs in the primary.  The fact that most of us are not active enough to help choose the primary candidates is not a fault of the system.

[Hoss]

Please note that I said we should make some changes to make it easier for an independent to run. 

With an open primary you are still choosing between two dysfunctional parties.  You just don't choose which one until election day.  As a non-party member you have no choice in who is running in the primary.  How does that make you feel like your vote counts.  The purpose of a primary is for a group of supposedly like minded people to put forth one candidate to the general election rather than a bunch.  I think Tulsa had an election for mayor once with nearly a dozen candidates.  How do you feel your vote counts there?  If one party has an unopposed candidate that just tells me that other like minded groups or non-minded (independents) are too apathetic to put someone up.  Maybe it's a feeling of futility.  The general election is the real election.

I can see the logic of Conan's viewpoint that a mass exodus from the parties will cause them to wake up.  Well maybe it will.  In the mean time, as a non-party member, you have no say in who runs in the primary.  The fact that most of us are not active enough to help choose the primary candidates is not a fault of the system.

Chicken and egg though...a lot of us aren't active in the system specifically for that reason...because we don't feel like we make a difference when we are required to be tied to a party affiliation to vote in the primary elections.  Just because I have a big, fat "D" on my voter card, doesn't mean there won't be times I won't want to pick a Republican who actually sounds like he or she makes sense.  Right now, most of them either need to be woken up or committed.

The evangelicals have hijacked the Republican Party.  And I hate to say this Conan, but Reagan is to blame for it.  He brought them in as a way to get votes; he knew he had to have them.  They haven't loosed their stranglehold since.

[Conan71]

Please note that I said we should make some changes to make it easier for an independent to run. 

With an open primary you are still choosing between two dysfunctional parties.  You just don't choose which one until election day.  As a non-party member you have no choice in who is running in the primary.  How does that make you feel like your vote counts.  The purpose of a primary is for a group of supposedly like minded people to put forth one candidate to the general election rather than a bunch.  I think Tulsa had an election for mayor once with nearly a dozen candidates.  How do you feel your vote counts there?  If one party has an unopposed candidate that just tells me that other like minded groups or non-minded (independents) are too apathetic to put someone up.  Maybe it's a feeling of futility.  The general election is the real election.

I can see the logic of Conan's viewpoint that a mass exodus from the parties will cause them to wake up.  Well maybe it will.  In the mean time, as a non-party member, you have no say in who runs in the primary.  The fact that most of us are not active enough to help choose the primary candidates is not a fault of the system.

Actually, the mayoral election of '86 drew something like 54 candidates.

Open primary is really no solution.  At least if you believe that it was Democrats and the liberal media machine who helped get McCain nominated.

[Red Arrow]

Chicken and egg though...a lot of us aren't active in the system specifically for that reason...because we don't feel like we make a difference when we are required to be tied to a party affiliation to vote in the primary elections.  Just because I have a big, fat "D" on my voter card, doesn't mean there won't be times I won't want to pick a Republican who actually sounds like he or she makes sense.  Right now, most of them either need to be woken up or committed.

I think if you really want to make a difference, you need to get involved before the primary.  Help choose the primary candidates.  Either party.

I have occasionally voted for a D.  Always a moderate D though. They would probably have been considered a R in a really Blue state.

The evangelicals have hijacked the Republican Party. 

Yep, the thing I dislike the most about today's Republican party.

[Red Arrow]

Actually, the mayoral election of '86 drew something like 54 candidates.

Was that the primary or the general election.  I remember it being a bunch but thought it got thinned a bit by the general election.

[Conan71]

Was that the primary or the general election.  I remember it being a bunch but thought it got thinned a bit by the general election.

I think about 12 of them had sobered up by election day, that's probably what you are remembering.

[nathanm]

That and if you can keep the over-zealous moon bats away from the media so they can't try and pin the movement as a bunch of mental defectives, that would go a long way in terms of credibility.  Any alternative movement seems to be quickly dismissed as "crazy" or "too out of step with reality".

What do you expect? Any real reform directly threatens the owners of the media. Not necessarily because we're all loony communists who will nationalize the networks or anything (although I, personally, would be in favor of bringing back some ownership restrictions if we can't figure out some other way to curb their outsized influence), but because they will lose the ability to suckle at the government teat while pretending they're all excellent businesspeople for being able to show profits so often. Their influence will wane, and clearly that can't happen.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I disagree. There is no reason a D should have a say in who the Rs want to put up for the general election and vs.  If one of the parties cannot field a candidate, too bad.   If you choose to disenfranchise yourself by not belonging to either party that's a choice you make. Making some revisions in the requirements for an independent person to run for office may be in order.

Open primaries would be like the voters in OKC electing the Mayor of Tulsa.

I wonder if it wouldn't help independents - if D or R could vote for I.  Might be a way to crack the door open to more alternatives.