Coming soon to a gas station near you!

[Townsend]

Or do you have a source that you can cite for this phenomenon?

[dbacks fan]

Peoria's red-light cameras will stop snapping photos of violators Oct. 3.

The city will not renew its contract with Redflex Traffic Systems after learning from police that crashes at monitored intersections actually increased during the three-year pilot program.

Collisions at the four intersections with red-light cameras saw an average uptick of 29 percent, Peoria police said in a Tuesday presentation to City Council.

Red-light violations did drop during the pilot period from 2008 to 2010, an average of 64 percent, Police Chief Roy Minter Jr. said.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/09/14/20110914peoria-deactivate-red-light-cameras-brk.html

And on the opposite side

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/06/19/20110619phoenix-red-light-cameras.html

[Gaspar]

Probably just freaks him out because it looks like a robot pointing a gun at him.

"Ahhhhh! Robot attack!"

[nathanm]

Or do you have a source that you can cite for this phenomenon?

I don't have one immediately at hand, but typically you see an increase of rear-end crashes as people slam on their brakes when the light turns yellow out of an abundance of caution. The cameras are effective at reducing t-bone type collisions, though. As far as injuries go, there are more injuries overall, but fewer of the life-threatening variety. Basically you trade a large increase in back and neck injuries for a small decrease in blunt force trauma injuries.

[AquaMan]

That's weak logic. If you're tailgating and hoping the car in front of you runs the yellow...yes... runs the yellow (because yellow is for when you're already in the intersection, not speeding up hoping to make it through before the people adjacent can react to their green light)....then yes you're going to rear end someone and pay dearly for it. Your second choice is a t-bone. Lay off the accelerator when approaching an intersection and neither one is likely.

It is not the fault of an "overly cautious" person who has enough time and judgement ability to stop at a yellow because he was able to observe that the green light was "old" and decided to not put others at risk by breaking the law. That's like complaining that people keep jumping in front of your bullets when you have target practice at the Wal Mart parking lot.

[custosnox]

That's weak logic. If you're tailgating and hoping the car in front of you runs the yellow...yes... runs the yellow (because yellow is for when you're already in the intersection, not speeding up hoping to make it through before the people adjacent can react to their green light)....then yes you're going to rear end someone and pay dearly for it. Your second choice is a t-bone. Lay off the accelerator when approaching an intersection and neither one is likely.

It is not the fault of an "overly cautious" person who has enough time and judgement ability to stop at a yellow because he was able to observe that the green light was "old" and decided to not put others at risk by breaking the law. That's like complaining that people keep jumping in front of your bullets when you have target practice at the Wal Mart parking lot.

I'll argue against that.  While rear ends are the fault of those who follow too closely, trying to predict a yellow light is pointless.  That is the point of a yellow light, to let you know that it is turning red.  What dictates an "old" green light?  Some intersections seem to change every thirty seconds, while others might as well only change once an hour.  If the yellow has a proper delay, then you should be able to clear the intersection as long as you were close enough (depending on speed) that stopping would mean slamming on your brakes.  The cameras are not causing the wrecks, the lack of understanding basic traffic principles is.

[dbacks fan]

I'll argue against that.  While rear ends are the fault of those who follow too closely, trying to predict a yellow light is pointless.  That is the point of a yellow light, to let you know that it is turning red.  What dictates an "old" green light?  Some intersections seem to change every thirty seconds, while others might as well only change once an hour.  If the yellow has a proper delay, then you should be able to clear the intersection as long as you were close enough (depending on speed) that stopping would mean slamming on your brakes.  The cameras are not causing the wrecks, the lack of understanding basic traffic principles is.

If you can see the traffic light that is between 1/4 and 1/2 mile away and it's green, and you did not see it turn green, it's an old green and going to change. Also if you drive the same areas a lot, you learn the patterns of the lights if you are paying attention. Oh, wait a minute, I pay attention to my driving, so I know the patterns of the traffic signals. I need to eat, text, change the radio, look for a cd, read my mail when I drive so I can be like everyone else..........

[AquaMan]

I'll argue against that.  While rear ends are the fault of those who follow too closely, trying to predict a yellow light is pointless.  That is the point of a yellow light, to let you know that it is turning red.  What dictates an "old" green light?  Some intersections seem to change every thirty seconds, while others might as well only change once an hour.  If the yellow has a proper delay, then you should be able to clear the intersection as long as you were close enough (depending on speed) that stopping would mean slamming on your brakes.  The cameras are not causing the wrecks, the lack of understanding basic traffic principles is.

You're right about one thing, a lack of understanding of basic traffic principles is the problem. The reason epressway ,Merge, Yield signs and traffic circles cause Okies so much angst.

The yellow light is not the "accelerate" light. It is indeed to let you know the light is turning red and give you notice to stop. In fact, yellows are hazard warnings. If you are not exceeding the speed limit and tailgaiting you will have no problem in stopping. I routinely stop a large commercial vehicle, which I am forced to obey speed limits in because of an onboard camera and computer, easily all over town. Its hilarious to see people swerve around cars and accelerate into an intersection that is already "old" yellow just to see them again at the next light.

The concept of "old" lights is taught in commercial driving courses. An "old" green light is one that has been green for a long time and most people can instinctively feel it. They either speed up, coast or slow down when they judge its been green too long. I look for opposing traffic's behaviour like, has the protected left turn already expired meaning that lane will slow down. Is the pedestrian walk light still on? If I have no idea of the age of the light then I coast at the speed limit which gives me time to stop if necessary. That way I am predicting the yellow light rather than believing that it is random and known only by the gods of Sauer. I know many people do the opposite and speed up which is fine if you don't exceed the speed limit and have to panic stop or run the light. Driving too fast merely reduces your options.

An "old" yellow is just that. Its been yellow too long to run it. I see folks accelerate to run a light that has already turned yellow. Dangerous and shortsighted as traffic coming from the adjacent lanes are probably speeding as well and never stop to think someone might run a light that has been green so long for them. The faster you go the more your perception of time and distance is affected. Yellows are predictable but you have to be concentrating on driving, not on everything else.

 

[patric]

The main reason cited for the uptick in rear-end collisions is someone starting through a yellow light, then loosing their nerve at the last second when they become aware of the traffic camera.

http://www.motorists.org/red-light-cameras/increase-accidents

[custosnox]

You're right about one thing, a lack of understanding of basic traffic principles is the problem. The reason epressway ,Merge, Yield signs and traffic circles cause Okies so much angst.

The yellow light is not the "accelerate" light. It is indeed to let you know the light is turning red and give you notice to stop. In fact, yellows are hazard warnings. If you are not exceeding the speed limit and tailgaiting you will have no problem in stopping. I routinely stop a large commercial vehicle, which I am forced to obey speed limits in because of an onboard camera and computer, easily all over town. Its hilarious to see people swerve around cars and accelerate into an intersection that is already "old" yellow just to see them again at the next light.

The concept of "old" lights is taught in commercial driving courses. An "old" green light is one that has been green for a long time and most people can instinctively feel it. They either speed up, coast or slow down when they judge its been green too long. I look for opposing traffic's behaviour like, has the protected left turn already expired meaning that lane will slow down. Is the pedestrian walk light still on? If I have no idea of the age of the light then I coast at the speed limit which gives me time to stop if necessary. That way I am predicting the yellow light rather than believing that it is random and known only by the gods of Sauer. I know many people do the opposite and speed up which is fine if you don't exceed the speed limit and have to panic stop or run the light. Driving too fast merely reduces your options.

An "old" yellow is just that. Its been yellow too long to run it. I see folks accelerate to run a light that has already turned yellow. Dangerous and shortsighted as traffic coming from the adjacent lanes are probably speeding as well and never stop to think someone might run a light that has been green so long for them. The faster you go the more your perception of time and distance is affected. Yellows are predictable but you have to be concentrating on driving, not on everything else.

 

My point is, you don't know for sure how long a light is going to be green, and while there can be some clues like pedestrian signals, familiarity and time, there are always exceptions.  If you try to predict when lights are going to turn yellow, what happens when they happen quick and you don't expect them?  Simply put, drive normally, be prepared for them to change, when they do make a good judgment about proceeding through

[Gaspar]

If the increase in rear-end crashes where the speed variance may only be 10mph offsets the increase in high-speed side and head-on impacts, I'm all for it.  Failure to stop at a red light crashes are potentially fatal, as opposed to a slower speed bumper crash.

[Red Arrow]

You're right about one thing, a lack of understanding of basic traffic principles is the problem. The reason epressway ,Merge, Yield signs and traffic circles cause Okies so much angst.

Agreed

The yellow light is not the "accelerate" light. It is indeed to let you know the light is turning red and give you notice to stop. In fact, yellows are hazard warnings.

Agreed

If you are not exceeding the speed limit and tailgaiting you will have no problem in stopping.

One would think so but I'm not so sure.  The TPD or a spokesperson occasionally get on TV to remind us that running a yellow is a ticketable offense, almost as much by only a few $ as running a red light.  They then go on to state that entering an intersection on a yellow is the violation.  Sounds like yellow is the same as I was taught a red is. Do not enter an intersection at all, ever, if the light is yellow.  Therefore, if the light turns yellow in front of you and you are not yet in the intersection, stop at all costs.

I was taught back in 1960s Driver's Ed that the yellow is the indication that the light is about to turn red.  If you can reasonably stop, do so.  Otherwise the light should remain yellow long enough for you to clear the intersection.  

One of my uncles had some difficulty with a manually (traffic control cop) in Philly many years ago when the cop intentionally turned the light red too quickly after turning it yellow.  My uncle got a ticket.  He tried to fight it in court but lost.  A few weeks later, my uncle was at the same intersection and the same cop was there.  The light turned yellow, my uncle executed a panic stop and halted in the middle of the intersection.  The cop came over, recognized my uncle and told him to move on.

It's hilarious to see people swerve around cars and accelerate into an intersection that is already "old" yellow just to see them again at the next light.

Some people are not too intelligent.  I will, however, go around a few lone pokie okies if a safe opportunity presents itself.  I recognize that traffic light roulette is not in my favor but stewing behind inconsiderate drivers ruins my whole day.  If traffic is just backed up in general, I settle down and go with the flow.

The concept of "old" lights is taught in commercial driving courses.

The concept of paying attention is good.  Trying to predict a yellow is OK if you are familiar with the area.  Slowing down enough while trying to predict a yellow will guarantee a yellow, or even red, if you slow down enough for you and everyone behind you.  Today driving in to work on northbound Memorial from 111th to the Creek Tpk, I saw many green lights well ahead of me.  At that time in the morning, they appear to be timed as I can frequently get from 111th to the turnpike without encountering more than one or two red lights if drivers don't slow in anticipation of a yellow or red. Sometimes I have to stop for a minor que delay but the lights are still green. Today with Spring Break traffic, I made it non-stop.

[AquaMan]

Slowing down enough while trying to predict a yellow will guarantee a yellow, or even red, if you slow down enough for you and everyone behind you.  

..

I don't advocate slowing down in anticipation of a yellow. I merely hold my speed or coast while judging whether it is going to change. If it changes within my stopping distance, I stop. If not I look around the intersection and pass through it, usually before the light has changed. Of course I am rarely speeding when approaching an intersection. It would be interesting to find out what the duration is of a yellow light and whether it varies around town or is based on the speed limit approaching the intersection. Any one know?

Sitting in a commercial vehicle gives you a lot better perspective visually and behaviorally. First, it is rare for a commercial driver to be ticketed for running a yellow or a red. They are in the business of driving and I believe their skills and practices mostly reflect that. They can lose their job and their CDL by making such mistakes. There are exceptions of course.

Secondly, people drive like they work. You start to notice which cars are aggressive, what they're wearing, what their personalized plates or bumper stickers say, the condition of their vehicle and what they are doing as they drive.

[Gaspar]

Red: Stop
Green: Go
Yellow: Go very fast!

[Conan71]

The main reason cited for the uptick in rear-end collisions is someone starting through a yellow light, then loosing their nerve at the last second when they become aware of the traffic camera.

http://www.motorists.org/red-light-cameras/increase-accidents

You simply cannot blame a mechanical object for poor decision making by motorists.  Driving has become a passive or secondary activity to far too many motorists.  Cars have become safer over the years so I think it's given drivers a certain sense of invincibility should they be in a crash.  Too many drivers view drive time as an opportunity to chat with their mistress, text their boyfriend, or catch up on email rather than focus on the serious task at hand.