Coming soon to a gas station near you!

[nathanm]

You simply cannot blame a mechanical object for poor decision making by motorists. 

Actually, you can. Understanding the human factors is how you increase safety. Yes, inattentive drivers as well as those who make the poor decision to slam on their brakes instead of proceeding through a yellow light are directly to blame, but that in no way means we should just throw up our hands and say there's nothing more we can do. The fact of the matter is that there are humans driving the vehicles. Humans who may be tired, distracted, or just plain stupid.

[custosnox]

Actually, you can. Understanding the human factors is how you increase safety. Yes, inattentive drivers as well as those who make the poor decision to slam on their brakes instead of proceeding through a yellow light are directly to blame, but that in no way means we should just throw up our hands and say there's nothing more we can do. The fact of the matter is that there are humans driving the vehicles. Humans who may be tired, distracted, or just plain stupid.

I say we require drivers to be trained.  Not a few hours in drivers ed when a teen, or taught by the parent, I mean actually trained.

[Conan71]

I say we require drivers to be trained.  Not a few hours in drivers ed when a teen, or taught by the parent, I mean actually trained.

Agreed.  Driving is a privilege, not a right.  More people need to respect the privilege.  

[Red Arrow]

..

I don't advocate slowing down in anticipation of a yellow. I merely hold my speed or coast while judging whether it is going to change.

I almost always hold my speed.  If it's an "old green",  I expect a yellow more than if it's a "new green".  There are some short greens around town and sometimes only a few cars get through before the light changes.  I notice that sometimes in a que,  I don't start to move until the light turns red.  It's not so bad if there are 20 or so cars in front but it's really irritating if there's only a few cars and the delay is due to driver inattentiveness or drivers who wait for the car in front to completely clear the intersection (OK, mild literary license) before entering the intersection.

If it changes within my stopping distance, I stop. If not I look around the intersection and pass through it, usually before the light has changed. Of course I am rarely speeding when approaching an intersection.

I also keep glancing in my mirror as I approach an "old green" and am prepared to say a ticket is less expensive than a guaranteed collision with the driver behind me.  I don't try to base my driving on my ability to spot police cars so I too am rarely above the speed limit.  As a BMW owner, I try to practice not using my turn signals whenever possible even while driving my Buick daily driver.  (Just kidding.)  If the mirrors are clear, I do occasionally dump the kleenex box on the passenger seat on the floor in front of it to avoid the ticket for entering an intersection on yellow.  Gripe: If it is truly against the law to enter an intersection on yellow, why have a yellow.  Just go green to red.

It would be interesting to find out what the duration is of a yellow light and whether it varies around town or is based on the speed limit approaching the intersection. Any one know?

I don't know but would also like to find out.

[dbacks fan]

I say we require drivers to be trained.  Not a few hours in drivers ed when a teen, or taught by the parent, I mean actually trained.

That and they need to do a tour of duty so to speak in a large metro area like LA, Phoenix, Chicago, Miami, NYC were yo have to pay attention to survive. (I know, wishful thinking)

[dbacks fan]

I almost always hold my speed.  If it's an "old green",  I expect a yellow more than if it's a "new green".  There are some short greens around town and sometimes only a few cars get through before the light changes.  I notice that sometimes in a que,  I don't start to move until the light turns red.  It's not so bad if there are 20 or so cars in front but it's really irritating if there's only a few cars and the delay is due to driver inattentiveness or drivers who wait for the car in front to completely clear the intersection (OK, mild literary license) before entering the intersection.

I also keep glancing in my mirror as I approach an "old green" and am prepared to say a ticket is less expensive than a guaranteed collision with the driver behind me.  I don't try to base my driving on my ability to spot police cars so I too am rarely above the speed limit.  As a BMW owner, I try to practice not using my turn signals whenever possible even while driving my Buick daily driver.  (Just kidding.)  If the mirrors are clear, I do occasionally dump the kleenex box on the passenger seat on the floor in front of it to avoid the ticket for entering an intersection on yellow.  Gripe: If it is truly against the law to enter an intersection on yellow, why have a yellow.  Just go green to red.


I don't know but would also like to find out.

25 MPH -- 3.0 Seconds
30 MPH -- 3.5 Seconds
35 MPH -- 4.0 Seconds
40 MPH -- 4.5 Seconds
45 MPH -- 5.0 Seconds
50 MPH -- 5.5 Seconds
55 MPH -- 6.0 Seconds
http://www.shortyellowlights.com/standards/

I'm waiting for an answer from a friend who is in the traffic signals dept where I used to work as to where they get their guidelines from.

[nathanm]

I say we require drivers to be trained.  Not a few hours in drivers ed when a teen, or taught by the parent, I mean actually trained.

I am in full agreement with that. Sometimes it surprises me we don't license dogs. That said, we require pretty intensive training for pilots and planes still crash pretty regularly. Often due to stupidly designed equipment in the cockpit that ends up distracting them more than helping them.

RA, if Oklahoma law makes it illegal to enter the intersection on yellow, the law is in desperate need of change. The entire purpose of the yellow phase is to allow those who are already in the intersection or who are too close to the intersection to stop safely before entering the intersection time to clear the intersection before the light turns red. (after which they should have a 1-2 second all-red period to allow for the distracted or inattentive)

[Red Arrow]

RA, if Oklahoma law makes it illegal to enter the intersection on yellow, the law is in desperate need of change. The entire purpose of the yellow phase is to allow those who are already in the intersection or who are too close to the intersection to stop safely before entering the intersection time to clear the intersection before the light turns red. (after which they should have a 1-2 second all-red period to allow for the distracted or inattentive)

I am just repeating what I have heard Police, TPD and/or OHP say on the TV.  I too think it's both stupid and wrong and if true needs to be changed.  It's possible "they" are just trying to get drivers to try to stop for the yellow but that is NOT what they are saying.

[Red Arrow]

Sometimes it surprises me we don't license dogs.

As drivers?

Dogs are typically required to be "licensed" by their owners but it's really just an ownership tax.

[dbacks fan]

The answer I got for yellow light length:

It is an equation that takes into account the intersection width and the speed limit (plus grade change) so it can vary from intersection to intersection. A good rule of thumb is to check the speed limit and divide by 10. 45 mph should be around 4.5 second yellow and so on, but that can change with the size of the intersection. Short answer right?

[nathanm]

As drivers?

Yes, as drivers. I think I've told the story of the time I was taking my written exam and I overheard a 16 year old complaining that since she had taken the test 7 times already they should just "give [her] the dang license." It disturbs me to think that she's almost certainly out there with a license in hand now.

[custosnox]

That and they need to do a tour of duty so to speak in a large metro area like LA, Phoenix, Chicago, Miami, NYC were yo have to pay attention to survive. (I know, wishful thinking)

You mean like in DC where I almost got into a fist fight with another driver because I didn't turn right on red because I assumed the sign that said do not turn right on red applied to me as well?

[AquaMan]

The answer I got for yellow light length:

Thanks for the answer Dback. That will be helpful to know.

[AquaMan]

You mean like in DC where I almost got into a fist fight with another driver because I didn't turn right on red because I assumed the sign that said do not turn right on red applied to me as well?

I get some mean stares as well for not turning right on red in my commercial vehicle. A commercial vehicle can legally turn red on right but my company policy forbids it except in emergencies because of the increase in accident potential. Once again, the law allows you to turn right on red, unless otherwise posted, but it does not require you to turn right on red.

[Conan71]

I am in full agreement with that. Sometimes it surprises me we don't license dogs. That said, we require pretty intensive training for pilots and planes still crash pretty regularly. Often due to stupidly designed equipment in the cockpit that ends up distracting them more than helping them.

Considering miles flown vs. number of crashes, aircraft accidents are really pretty rare.

Actually, what is more common is fuel exhaustion, flying into adverse weather conditions the pilot and/or aircraft is not suited for, spatial or situational disorientation, or a mechanical issue and the pilot either not being able to find or not choosing a suitable place to land.  

Certainly, there are accidents where a pilot has consumed himself fiddling with breakers or something else in the cockpit during a mechanical emergency and simply forgot to keep flying the plane.   I believe that was part of the cause attributed to the OSU 10 crash.  As a pilot (though not active) I'd tend to disagree with your assertion that there is a lot of stupidly-designed equipment in the cockpit.  If anything, there's far more attention placed on cockpit ergonomics in an aircraft than there is in a car.