"If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon."

[Conan71]

I think Jordan made it a point to not end up echoing the gross missteps of the Sanford PD, and that was good for us.
But... people are going to expect the same exuberance for less high-profile crimes, now that they see how fast the wheels can turn.

Look, there's a huge difference between the Sanford incident and the Tulsa massacre and how the laws apply to each.  There was apparently sufficient evidence at the time that Zimmerman had been assaulted by Martin according to police accounts at the scene.  There was enough room for doubt as to Zimmerman's culpability in the crime he's accused of committing.

In the Tulsa case, these two pieces of smile drove around north Tulsa shooting people at random.  There was absolutely zero doubt about this not being a case of self-defense.  It's obviously not near as clear-cut in the Sanford case.  That's why the wheels turned so quickly.  Secondly, when you have a mass or serial killer on the loose, you have to move fast to contain them, therefore, they will get as many hands on the case as they can soon as possible.

It's got far less to do with public appearances and acting quick because another case 1500 miles away turned into a clusterfark.

[nathanm]

It's got far less to do with public appearances and acting quick because another case 1500 miles away turned into a clusterfark.

I don't know that it made them do anything differently, but I would be very surprised if the unfavorable attention Sanford has been getting wasn't somewhere in TPD's thought process.

[Teatownclown]

NY times article on McLain neighborhood in todays paper. If you ignore it the problem of poverty will still exist.

[nathanm]

NY times article on McLain neighborhood in todays paper. If you ignore it the problem of poverty will still exist.

I saw that this morning. It was a little weird seeing Tulsa in the NYT in a not-directly-news story.

[Conan71]

Back to the topic at hand, Zimmerman is in custody and appeared in court today on 2nd degree murder charges.

I was very impressed with the prosecutor yesterday when she told the media that the evidence which led her to file charges was essentially none of their business and was for the judge and jury to hear.

[patric]

The main reason Zimmerman's self defense claim isn't holding water is because he actively pursued his victim.

It's going to be interesting to see how that plays out, because look who else just got cleared on a claim of self defense doing something similar:

Sheriff's deputies were justified in shooting a Tulsa man outside the Tulsa County Courthouse last month, the Wagoner County assistant district attorney who is charged with investigating the incident said Wednesday.

Andrew Joseph Dennehy, 23, was shot on the plaza north of the courthouse shortly after 2:30 p.m. March 7 after he allegedly fired several shots from a .357-caliber pistol into the air and pointed his weapon at deputies, authorities said.
"We are clearing the officers," prosecutor Jack Thorp said.

According to an affidavit filed by an investigator with the District Attorney's Office, Deputies David Fortenberry, Stephen Culley and Dennis Miller came out of the courthouse's north entrance and saw Dennehy sitting on a concrete bench holding a pistol.

"It appears that both deputies were able to fire toward the gunman while defending themselves and did so cautiously and professionally," Thorp said.

The Tulsa County District Attorney's Office recused itself because several of its employees saw the shootings.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=14&articleid=20120412_16_A11_CUTLIN897537

[Gaspar]

The main reason Zimmerman's self defense claim isn't holding water is because he actively pursued his victim.

It's going to be interesting to see how that plays out, because look who else just got cleared on a claim of self defense doing something similar:

Sheriff's deputies were justified in shooting a Tulsa man outside the Tulsa County Courthouse last month, the Wagoner County assistant district attorney who is charged with investigating the incident said Wednesday.

Andrew Joseph Dennehy, 23, was shot on the plaza north of the courthouse shortly after 2:30 p.m. March 7 after he allegedly fired several shots from a .357-caliber pistol into the air and pointed his weapon at deputies, authorities said.
"We are clearing the officers," prosecutor Jack Thorp said.

According to an affidavit filed by an investigator with the District Attorney's Office, Deputies David Fortenberry, Stephen Culley and Dennis Miller came out of the courthouse's north entrance and saw Dennehy sitting on a concrete bench holding a pistol.

"It appears that both deputies were able to fire toward the gunman while defending themselves and did so cautiously and professionally," Thorp said.

The Tulsa County District Attorney's Office recused itself because several of its employees saw the shootings.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=14&articleid=20120412_16_A11_CUTLIN897537

Similar?  Really?

Zimmerman was an idiot who, we assume, followed someone he felt was suspect, and engaged that person (who was not committing any crime at the time) rather than allowing law enforcement to do their job. 

The Tulsa police were attempting to contain a man shooting at people in a public place with no idea of his intent beyond the fact that he was FREAKING SHOOTING AT PEOPLE.  Call me crazy, but something tells me this is exactly when an officer should apply deadly force.

[heironymouspasparagus]

The Tulsa police were attempting to contain a man shooting at people in a public place with no idea of his intent beyond the fact that he was FREAKING SHOOTING AT PEOPLE.  Call me crazy, but something tells me this is exactly when an officer should apply deadly force.

I second your motion!  And no, not crazy at all!

[patric]

Similar?  Really?

Zimmerman was an idiot who, we assume, followed someone he felt was suspect, and engaged that person (who was not committing any crime at the time) rather than allowing law enforcement to do their job. 

The Tulsa police were attempting to contain a man shooting at people in a public place with no idea of his intent beyond the fact that he was FREAKING SHOOTING AT PEOPLE.  Call me crazy, but something tells me this is exactly when an officer should apply deadly force.

The similarity I was pointing out were the claims of self-defense while actively engaging an individual  (anything beyond that is over-interpretation).
It seems to be acceptable in the TCSO (not TPD as gaspar claims) instance, so might it also in Zimmermans -- unless the dividing line is cop Vs. wanna-be cop?
In other words, is it more a factor of who you are than what you are doing when claiming self-defense?  --and what standard will Zimmerman ultimately be held to?

[nathanm]

In other words, is it more a factor of who you are than what you are doing when claiming self-defense?

It seems like it would be a "defense of others" claim in the case of the deputies.

[Conan71]

The similarity I was pointing out were the claims of self-defense while actively engaging an individual  (anything beyond that is over-interpretation).
It seems to be acceptable in the TCSO (not TPD as gaspar claims) instance, so might it also in Zimmermans -- unless the dividing line is cop Vs. wanna-be cop?
In other words, is it more a factor of who you are than what you are doing when claiming self-defense?  --and what standard will Zimmerman ultimately be held to?

Your logic astounds me at times.

The deputies were charged with protecting the public from an armed person firing shots.  He was an obvious danger to the public and the deputies.

It has nothing to do with cop v. wannabe.  In Zimmerman's case Martin does not appear to have been armed when he was engaged.  Huge difference.  It appears Zimmerman provoked the encounter, Martin responded by assaulting him, Zimmerman then defended himself from an assault he apparently instigated in the first place. 

The deputies were responding to a very clear danger.

[nathanm]

Martin responded by assaulting him

FWIW, there's no (public) evidence of that other than Zimmerman's obviously self serving account told to the media by his daddy. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but it's somewhat inconsistent with eye/earwitness accounts. It'll be interesting to see what comes up at trial. (I hope it's not televised, but I still want transcripts!)

[Gaspar]

If Zimmerman squeaks his way out of this somehow because of all of the media attention. I hope to hell that the family sues the pants off of all of the parasites that have attached themselves to them!

[Red Arrow]

I second your motion!  And no, not crazy at all!

Gaspar asks a tiny favor to have someone call him crazy and you can't even do that.
What kind of friend are you anyway?



By the way, Gaspar, you are crazy.

[Gaspar]

Gaspar asks a tiny favor to have someone call him crazy and you can't even do that.
What kind of friend are you anyway?



By the way, Gaspar, you are crazy.

Like a fox!