Repeal the "Stand Your Ground" Laws

[Breadburner]

I haven't had violent acts done to me because I was white but I have been discriminated against.  I did get into a fight with a Navy barracks roomie who was Puerto Rican but we had both had a few adult beverages.   I didn't get a summer job during my college years that I had the previous two summers because I am white.  That year the job was reserved for a minority.   I also was told by a Navy electronics instructor that Polish people are stupid and he never had one do any good in his class. I am 1/2 Polish on my dad's side, my last name is Polish. I took care of that instructor by getting the highest grade of my classmates in that class.

Well...You know what they say in the Russian marines.....

[Gaspar]

I haven't had violent acts done to me because I was white but I have been discriminated against.  I did get into a fight with a Navy barracks roomie who was Puerto Rican but we had both had a few adult beverages.   I didn't get a summer job during my college years that I had the previous two summers because I am white.  That year the job was reserved for a minority.   I also was told by a Navy electronics instructor that Polish people are stupid and he never had one do any good in his class. I am 1/2 Polish on my dad's side, my last name is Polish. I took care of that instructor by getting the highest grade of my classmates in that class.

I bet the Puerto Rican won! 

I lost a job years ago to a very hot women.  I was working as a rep for a company out of Central America that sold rooted cuttings to nurseries across the country.  My boss felt that because commercial nursery owners were mostly older men they would buy more from a woman.  I was outraged at first, but then I got to meet her, and I must say I can't blame him.  She was smokin!  I'd buy from her even if I didn't' own a nursery.

[RecycleMichael]

My looks have been helpful in advancing my career. On behalf of all us beautiful people, I apologize to you and people who look like you.

[Red Arrow]

I bet the Puerto Rican won! 

Mixed results.  I was going on temporary duty the next day so I didn't see him for 3 weeks but....
I got a black eye when he offered to end the fight and then sucker punched me. 
The 1st Class PO that was the MAA of the barracks was a friend and he said I made some marks on my roomie that showed pretty good.  My roomie also told me when I got back that he thought I had given him a mild concussion.  That was probably a result of head to concrete block wall contact.  He said he had done some amateur boxing and had similar injuries before.  So, I figured I did OK for a white boy from suburbia.

[Conan71]

The actions of the perpetrators determine if it is a hate crime. Did they single these people out because they were white? Did they shout "Honky" or "Cracker" while they were killing them? In this case, the two victims were targeted for a robbery, which appears to be the motivation for the crime. While horrible and senseless, it's not a hate crime.

In contrast to this, take the Chilean gay man that was just tortured and beaten to death, and then swastikas were carved all over his body. The perps were all known neo-nazis. This is an obvious case of a crime motivated by hate. Other cases aren't quite as obvious....

Was Zimmerman motivated by hate? We don't know for sure yet, but the mounting evidence doesn't look good for him.  

No one knows because the only witnesses to the Hicks Park case are dead.

You can be pretty well-assured that these young black men had used the terms "cracker", "whitey", and "honkey" in their daily banter.  Does that alone form the basis for a predisposed hatred of white people?

What if a black man walks past several other black people to specifically assault me while riding my bicycle through north Tulsa?  Is that enough basis for a hate crime?  Rape is usually the result of a severe hatred of women in general.  Why don't they pile on hate crime charges when women are raped, as that's almost always the case.

I honestly cannot think of a single instance I've heard of where the term hate crime has been applied on a white person.

I suspect had the scenario played out the same with a white or Hispanic kid, he would be just as dead.  I don't think Zimmerman acted out of hatred, I think he acted out of fear, though that appears to have been misplaced until he apparently engaged this kid.

[nathanm]

I think he acted out of fear

Yes, if I were scared of someone I know I would get out of my car and follow them on foot. That's what scared people do, isn't it?

[TeeDub]

Yes, if I were scared of someone I know I would get out of my car and follow them on foot. That's what scared people do, isn't it?

You don't have to be scared to shoot someone.   You don't even have to be scared to "stand your ground."   

[nathanm]

You don't even have to be scared to "stand your ground."   

If you aren't fearing for your life or great bodily harm and you intentionally shoot someone, you deserve to go to jail.

[TeeDub]

If you aren't fearing for your life or great bodily harm and you intentionally shoot someone, you deserve to go to jail.

Scared doesn't enter into the statute.   If I reasonably believe you are going to try to do me physical harm, I can use any force, up to and including deadly force to protect myself.

[Hoss]

Wasn't there a poster on this forum who had to do exactly that (shoot someone breaking into his home) here within the last two years or so?

[Teatownclown]

I honestly cannot think of a single instance I've heard of where the term hate crime has been applied on a white person.

So much blather and blabber on here....

I can. I have a friend who was killed by two white guys. It was white on white hate...gay man murdered by white gay bashers.

You people do not understand the plight of the White man nor the meaning of hate crimes. But keep it up.

[nathanm]

Wasn't there a poster on this forum who had to do exactly that (shoot someone breaking into his home) here within the last two years or so?

I'd have to defer to custosnox on the details, but yes, he did shoot at an intruder who had actually kicked his door in. As I've repeatedly stated, I think it's perfectly reasonable that a person has more leeway in self defense when they're in their home. I don't think that extends to shooting people you can't even see, though.

TeeDub, you might want to get your glasses checked. Outside the home unless you reasonably believe you (or another person) are in danger of death or great bodily harm or see someone committing a forcible felony you can't shoot someone. Mere physical harm that does not rise to the level of great bodily harm (essentially injury that would be life threatening or cause the long-term loss of use of some body part) does not count. If you shoot someone in that instance, you should not expect protection by the law. The law is pretty clear. Stupid, but clear.

[Teatownclown]

I'd have to defer to custosnox on the details, but yes, he did shoot at an intruder who had actually kicked his door in. As I've repeatedly stated, I think it's perfectly reasonable that a person has more leeway in self defense when they're in their home. I don't think that extends to shooting people you can't even see, though.

TeeDub, you might want to get your glasses checked. Outside the home unless you reasonably believe you (or another person) are in danger of death or great bodily harm or see someone committing a forcible felony you can't shoot someone. Mere physical harm that does not rise to the level of great bodily harm (essentially injury that would be life threatening or cause the long-term loss of use of some body part) does not count. If you shoot someone in that instance, you should not expect protection by the law. The law is pretty clear. Stupid, but clear.

With such a corrupt system of law enforcement emerging in this country, what difference does justification make?  Just curious...

[Conan71]

So much blather and blabber on here....

I can. I have a friend who was killed by two white guys. It was white on white hate...gay man murdered by white gay bashers.

You people do not understand the plight of the White man nor the meaning of hate crimes. But keep it up.

Sorry, I meant white straight people.  I understand the plight of the white man these days quite well.  Do you?

With such a corrupt system of law enforcement emerging in this country, what difference does justification make?  Just curious...

At least in Tulsa and Oklahoma County districts, SYG is NOT a slam-dunk.  They keep the bar high, some think a little too high.

[nathanm]

At least in Tulsa and Oklahoma County districts, SYG is NOT a slam-dunk.  They keep the bar high, some think a little too high.

The law specifically bars someone whose situation is covered by the SYG law from being arrested unless there is probable cause to believe that SYG does not apply.

G. A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force, but the law enforcement agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
H. The court shall award reasonable attorney fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection F of this section.