3 dead, 2 injured in series of shootings

[Conan71]

Al and Jesse and Van speak up against prejudice and discrimination. I know that bugs the sh!t out of you....

The reason I don't care for either of these two "preachers" is they preach a message of controversy and confrontation not a message of peace and healing which is the Christian doctrine they supposedly espouse.  They keep trying to convince their black brethren it's the white man holding them down.  Fine, but rather than showing examples of how black people and other minorities can rise above their struggles, all they do is stay mired in heated racial rhetoric and spout off about how all the odds are stacked against minorities.  That's NOT a solution for black Americans, TTC.

Remember, I'm a solutions-oriented person, not problem-oriented.  That is the reason I can't stand either one of them.

Those two don't understand solutions, unless you think extortion and creating controversy where it is not needed is some sort of great solution for race issues.

[RecycleMichael]

Al Sharpton bugs the hell out of me.

I think he is divisive, mean-spirited, and serves as a spokesman for keeping race relations a topic even when they aren't.

[azbadpuppy]

Al Sharpton bugs the hell out of me.

I think he is divisive, mean-spirited, and serves as a spokesman for keeping race relations a topic even when they aren't.

I have to agree. He does not have a good track record. Tawana Brawley, anyone?

But it is sad that there are reasons people like him are in the public eye. It's definitely something we should be talking about. Pretending racism does not exist results in events (and the cover up) like the 1921 Tulsa race riot...

[azbadpuppy]

Tulsa was the focus of an NPR story this morning, and I have to say it did not put Tulsa in a positive light. They interviewed a native Tulsan who is a historian and professor at U of Michigan.

Basically, he claims that Tulsa hasn't evolved much since the riots, and that most Tulsans would view these recent shootings as a tragedy, but not a commentary on race relations in the city. He also mentioned that one of the up and coming neighborhoods, the Brady, is named after a prominant local businessman who also happened to be a prominent klansman. That is something I did not know. Why would Tulsa, with it's less than stellar history of race relations, name a well known district after a confirmed racist? Why not rename it to something less offensive? It seems very insensitive. I never knew that about Tate Brady. I guess it's not surprising, given that I never leared about the race riots until I was in my 20's and living in another state. Is it still not taught in the schools in Tulsa? 

I am curious as to what others think about this. 

[custosnox]

I have to agree. He does not have a good track record. Tawana Brawley, anyone?

But it is sad that there are reasons people like him are in the public eye. It's definitely something we should be talking about. Pretending racism does not exist results in events (and the cover up) like the 1921 Tulsa race riot...

there is a difference between pretending racism does not exist and not acting like everything has to do with it

[custosnox]

Tulsa was the focus of an NPR story this morning, and I have to say it did not put Tulsa in a positive light. They interviewed a native Tulsan who is a historian and professor at U of Michigan.

Basically, he claims that Tulsa hasn't evolved much since the riots, and that most Tulsans would view these recent shootings as a tragedy, but not a commentary on race relations in the city. He also mentioned that one of the up and coming neighborhoods, the Brady, is named after a prominant local businessman who also happened to be a prominent klansman. That is something I did not know. Why would Tulsa, with it's less than stellar history of race relations, name a well known district after a confirmed racist? Why not rename it to something less offensive? It seems very insensitive. I never knew that about Tate Brady. I guess it's not surprising, given that I never leared about the race riots until I was in my 20's and living in another state. Is it still not taught in the schools in Tulsa? 

I am curious as to what others think about this. 

The research on Tate Brady has only recently (as in the last year or so) come to the public's attention.  It seems to me that this professor has an ax to grind against Tulsa, and trying to say that we are indifferent about racism because recent research has shown that the person that the Brady district is named after was a clansman, contrary to popular belief, is really just nick picking.  Not to mention that not everyone accepts this research as positive proof of such a stance (though it is primarily the great granddaughter that is fighting it).

[tulsa_fan]

there is a difference between pretending racism does not exist and not acting like everything has to do with it

Agreed!

[guido911]

I went to NPR's website to look into this prof that made that insipid analysis about Tulsa not moving forward since the riots. I found this on it's home page and, well...





http://www.npr.org/2012/04/09/150299723/for-the-first-time-mr-gay-world-crowned-in-africa

[Conan71]

there is a difference between pretending racism does not exist and not acting like everything has to do with it

Well put.

Azbad, I disagree Tulsa has not evolved since the riots.  Just because some Tulsa native who now is a professor at the U of M says it's so doesn't make it that way for those of us who still live here.  I think race relations in Tulsa have kept pace with those nationally.  There's also been plenty of attention shined on the riots in the last 10-20 years.

I know little of Tate Brady's life and no idea if he ever renounced his Klansmanship.  Even if he was an ignorant, racist bastard, that doesn't negate all the good contributions he did give to Tulsa.  

I would imagine there are memorials in the form of buildings and roads named after Sen. Robert Byrd in West Virginia for all the good he brought to the state in his years in the U.S. Senate.  Should those be re-named simply because he also had a racist streak at one time?

I found this comment from a race riot survivor on the idea of renaming anything Brady interesting:

Fox 23 spoke to Tulsans about changing place names that honor Brady, including the Brady Heights historic neighborhood, Brady Street, and the Brady Arts District. I'm inclined to agree with 94-year-old race riot survivor Wess Young:

He doesn't want the neighborhood's name to change. "That's history, why would you try and change what has gone one and not show what progress you have made," he told FOX23. He says he doesn't live in Tate Brady's neighborhood, he lives in his neighborhood. No matter what name it has. "It doesn't bother me because I have the privilege to live where I can afford."

http://www.batesline.com/archives/2011/09/tate-brady-the-klan-and-the-atta.html

[guido911]

Well put.

Azbad, I disagree Tulsa has not evolved since the riots.  Just because some Tulsa native who now is a professor at the U of M says it's so doesn't make it that way for those of us who still live here.  I think race relations in Tulsa have kept pace with those nationally.  There's also been plenty of attention shined on the riots in the last 10-20 years.

I know little of Tate Brady's life and no idea if he ever renounced his Klansmanship.  Even if he was an ignorant, racist bastard, that doesn't negate all the good contributions he did give to Tulsa.  

I would imagine there are memorials in the form of buildings and roads named after Sen. Robert Byrd in West Virginia for all the good he brought to the state in his years in the U.S. Senate.  Should those be re-named simply because he also had a racist streak at one time?

I found this comment from a race riot survivor on the idea of renaming anything Brady interesting:

And your point is precisely what I was thinking which is what prompted me to examine the source of that critique. My gosh, tying today's Tulsans to what the 1920s Tulsans were like? Crap, I'm not even from here originally, and neither are a lion share of people in my circle. It isn't even logical that I could be part of that "problem". Incidentally, I did a little research on the most racist cities in America, and look at the second link that popped up and who's number 1. Funny.

https://www.google.com/search?q=famous%20racists&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&source=hp&channel=np#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=4ye&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&channel=np&sclient=psy-ab&q=racist+cities&oq=racist+cities&aq=f&aqi=g4&aql=&gs_l=serp.3..0l4.38235l38235l1l38606l1l1l0l0l0l0l182l182l0j1l1l0.frgbld.&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=bb242dc4ab43ba95&biw=1366&bih=622

[Teatownclown]

The reason I don't care for either of these two "preachers" is they preach a message of controversy and confrontation not a message of peace and healing which is the Christian doctrine they supposedly espouse.  They keep trying to convince their black brethren it's the white man holding them down.  Fine, but rather than showing examples of how black people and other minorities can rise above their struggles, all they do is stay mired in heated racial rhetoric and spout off about how all the odds are stacked against minorities.  That's NOT a solution for black Americans, TTC.

Remember, I'm a solutions-oriented person, not problem-oriented.  That is the reason I can't stand either one of them.

Those two don't understand solutions, unless you think extortion and creating controversy where it is not needed is some sort of great solution for race issues.

You and Cust are working hard to race bait me today, but I won't get too entangled. Non violent confrontation to move against an injustice makes sense to keep rioting from a method and these leaders provide an ability to communicate civility with the masses of frustrated people. You really think they created the controversy in Florida? BTW RM, it's always a necessary evil to be a speaker for a country's conscience.

You're an engineer Conan? Some sensitivity towards the issue rather than dismissing it as "creating controversy." Is "creating controversy" the same  as pointing out injustices, prejudices, and discriminatory practices against gender, race, or ethnic background? These gentlemen believe strongly in peace and in civil disobedience. For you noticing they aren't coming here while still spatting a disconnect and incoherence against these minority group leaders again exposes you because I know you enjoy a good debate. In the Zimmerman situation, these men did not create a controversy but instead exposed a potential mishandling of justice to the masses. If you have a problem with that, then quit reading newspapers, the internet, and watching Fox.

I stand by my earlier comments:

If TPD were to mishandle the case, which the detective division will probably not do, and word got out about some sort of cover up or favorable treatment to the perpetrator, you can bet Al Sharpton and Rev. Jackson might show up.

Al and Jesse and Van speak up against prejudice and discrimination. I know that bugs the sh!t out of you....

Go get him TPD. They usually do very good work when it comes to this criminal type. I bet they find this white creep by tracing his ammo.

  I didn't start this fire. Why's it still simmering? Think it's going to get better on it's own?

"They never know what's going on in the Negro Community" Malcom X (watch and don't run from it)...still applies today.

[azbadpuppy]

there is a difference between pretending racism does not exist and not acting like everything has to do with it

Absolutely. Those are both the extremes. Somewhere there is middle ground.

[Teatownclown]

Not "everything has to do with it" but it seeped into this thread right away (Conan)....

I don't see it being introduced into %90 the other topic threads here.

[custosnox]

You and Cust are working hard to race bait me today, but I won't get too entangled. Non violent confrontation to move against an injustice makes sense to keep rioting from a method and these leaders provide an ability to communicate civility with the masses of frustrated people. You really think they created the controversy in Florida? BTW RM, it's always a necessary evil to be a speaker for a country's conscience.

You're an engineer Conan? Some sensitivity towards the issue rather than dismissing it as "creating controversy." Is "creating controversy" the same  as pointing out injustices, prejudices, and discriminatory practices against gender, race, or ethnic background? These gentlemen believe strongly in peace and in civil disobedience. For you noticing they aren't coming here while still spatting a disconnect and incoherence against these minority group leaders again exposes you because I know you enjoy a good debate. In the Zimmerman situation, these men did not create a controversy but instead exposed a potential mishandling of justice to the masses. If you have a problem with that, then quit reading newspapers, the internet, and watching Fox.

I stand by my earlier comments:

 I didn't start this fire. Why's it still simmering? Think it's going to get better on it's own?

"They never know what's going on in the Negro Community" Malcom X (watch and don't run from it)...still applies today.

Sharpton and Jackson are nothing more than bottom feeding scum that see it as their solemn duty to do nothing more than keep the divide between so called races as open as possible.  They are not interested in healing any wounds, they are interested in pouring as much salt in it, gouging it until it bleeds more and watching the public react to the pain so that they can get their own personal justification.  They are the type that see color of skin before anything else and react according to it.  Do you really want to be in the same category as this?

edit to ask, where exactly have I race baited?

[Teatownclown]

You sound like Charlie Manson....