3 dead, 2 injured in series of shootings

[azbadpuppy]

I went to Jenks in the 80s and we learned about it.  It was actually a chapter in one of our text books.  I remember being amazed by all of the old pictures of Tulsa, and shocked that something like that could happen in a city where I grew up. 

That is interesting, because I too went to Jenks in the 80's, and never once remember reading, or hearing about it. I didn't graduate high school at Jenks though, but my older sister graduated from Jenks in the 80's and she never learned about it either. They must have changed the curriculum? Hopefully so.

[nathanm]

Basically, he claims that Tulsa hasn't evolved much since the riots, and that most Tulsans would view these recent shootings as a tragedy, but not a commentary on race relations in the city.

This is not a situation unique to Tulsa. It seems most white folks are in denial about the effectively racist policies that permeate our country. Limiting it solely to Tulsa or even a group of "racist" cities and/or states is just silly. The whole damn country is permeated by the remnants of our racist past. I have come to see denial of the facts of the situation as just another form of latent racism.

Note that this is in no way to say that any particular individual is racist. Most people are very far from racists, they just don't want to deal with the hard truths. There's no hatred in their heart, just denial.

The sad thing is that we've been here before. There was a period after the Civil War where black people were, at least as far as the government was concerned, fully equal to whites. Only later did declining concern for racism on the part of the abolitionist Northerners as they turned their attention elsewhere (after all, there is no more slavery, job well done!) allow the racist practices and institutions to begin taking over.

Once again, we see otherwise right-thinking people in denial about the racism that continues to be rained down upon many of our fellow countrymen. I hope that it won't get as bad as it did last time around this merry-go-round, although with states like Wisconsin eliminating their equal pay laws, I'm becoming less and less sure.

[custosnox]

I don't know why I felt the need to put a y in Watts.  And my point is that there is a lot of stuff in history.  There is a lot that I'm sure we have learned over the years, in school and elsewhere, that we can't even remember where we learned it, so it's easy to loose track of what gets taught where.

[Gaspar]

That is interesting, because I too went to Jenks in the 80's, and never once remember reading, or hearing about it. I didn't graduate high school at Jenks though, but my older sister graduated from Jenks in the 80's and she never learned about it either. They must have changed the curriculum? Hopefully so.

Mr. Ellenburg 8th grade.  I remember him asking the class to read the chapter in class (not as homework) so that we could engage in supervised discussion I suppose. 

[Conan71]

Insightful post...

Custo, the problem is racism goes unnoticed.

Conan, do you think people change? He's certainly learned about diet.

Not following you here

Tulsa is a better place these days. I'd attribute it to the integration of schools which opened the door to communication and understanding. Our sanctuaries seem more tolerant as well. Unfortunately, the melt down of family and hard economic times sets progress back. The bigger conflict is between the haves and the have nots.

We were told the proper solution to racial divide and segregation is to bus black students into schools in predominantly white neighborhoods, and creating magnet schools in black neighborhoods to get white kids into schools in black neighborhoods.

Then the complaint becomes that busing is bad and we are no longer focusing on black neighborhoods because we are "decentralizing" their community schools and sending their best kids to schools in white neighborhoods.

Can't win.

Personally, I don't define myself as white, I'm a member of the human race, not the "white" race.  Besides, I'm sort of a pinkish tan.

[azbadpuppy]

I don't know why I felt the need to put a y in Watts.  And my point is that there is a lot of stuff in history.  There is a lot that I'm sure we have learned over the years, in school and elsewhere, that we can't even remember where we learned it, so it's easy to loose track of what gets taught where.

Lol- I actually googled Wyatt because I hadn't ever heard of that one before.

Yes there's a ton of history out there. All I can say is that when I did finally hear about the deadliest racial conflict in American history (It was a TV show in the early 90's), I was absolutely shocked to find out it happened in my hometown. That is something one does not tend to forget, and although we'd all rather highlight the beauty, architecture and rich heritage of Tulsa, it's dangerous to throw out an ugly part of the past because it's embarrassing or uncomfortable to talk about.

[azbadpuppy]

Mr. Ellenburg 8th grade.  I remember him asking the class to read the chapter in class (not as homework) so that we could engage in supervised discussion I suppose. 

That's good to know, and sorry I missed it. I guess not every kid at Jenks was able to learn about it.

[Conan71]

it's dangerous to throw out an ugly part of the past because it's embarrassing or uncomfortable to talk about.

Devil's advocate moment here: Why is it dangerous?  That's a really strong term.

I agree there has to be an awareness, but at some point you have to differentiate between awareness and obsession or exploitation to the detriment of current racial relations.

Maybe I'm simply too wrapped up in focusing on the many ways in which I'm alike other people rather than the few ways I differ that I'm simply a Pollyanna when it comes to race.   

[carltonplace]

To me it seems the historian has a bias against Tulsa and is intent on painting the scene in a poor light, just from what you posted about him as it doesn't seem to accurately reflect what I see here.  

I had the same feeling as I listened to the interview, but...I think there is a tiny bit of validity to his statement that whites in Tulsa would view this as a tragedy but not as an abberation. As a Tulsan it's hard for me to think that this type of hate could still exist in our city even though I know there are people with ignorant and bigoted additudes toward blacks, hispanics, muslims, jews, gays (etc) living here.

Do we have widespread bigotry in Tulsa? No. Do we have a complicated and painful history? Yes. Have we changed in pace with the rest of the nation? Maybe.  We do have a lot of people that don't understand North Tulsa and are afraid of it. We do have pockets where all kinds of ignorance and bigotry flourish, where people cluster in areas with others of like minds.

As far as changing the name of the Brady district? Why not. If it helps to promote good will we should do it. We shouldn't hide from the past...but we also shouldn't slap each other in the face with things that are painful (intentionally or not).  

IMO the entire northside of Downtown could be called "The Greenwood District".

[azbadpuppy]

Devil's advocate moment here: Why is it dangerous?  That's a really strong term.

I agree there has to be an awareness, but at some point you have to differentiate between awareness and obsession or exploitation to the detriment of current racial relations.

Maybe I'm simply too wrapped up in focusing on the many ways in which I'm alike other people rather than the few ways I differ that I'm simply a Pollyanna when it comes to race.   

Well to have an awareness, you first have to be taught about it....

Can you imagine if Germany did not teach their school children about race relations? Of course racism still exists in Germany, but it is so taboo because from early on, German kids are taught just how far hatred can go. I think we can all agree that's a good thing.

I don't think dangerous is too strong. Honestly, riots could happen again in Tulsa. I'm actually surprised there hasn't been more of an outcry from those living above Admiral, and that can probably be attributed mainly to the actions of law enforcement and the swift arrest of the shooters. Racial divide isn't something many people think about in Tulsa, and many other cities in the US, because mostly its neatly tucked away, and well guarded. Out of sight, out of mind. That is of course until something bad happens.

[DTowner]

I did not grow up in Tulsa or Oklahoma, but how much Tulsa history was actually taught in school?  If very little was taught, then little surprise there was nothing on the race riots.  If you teach the race riots, then I think a broader Tulsa history should also be taught.

[Townsend]

I did not grow up in Tulsa or Oklahoma, but how much Tulsa history was actually taught in school?  If very little was taught, then little surprise there was nothing on the race riots.  If you teach the race riots, then I think a broader Tulsa history should also be taught.

Three semesters of Oklahoma History in highschool.  Learned the hell out of what boomers and sooners were.  Tulsa race riot?  Squat.

[Teatownclown]

Three semesters of Oklahoma History in highschool.  Learned the hell out of what boomers and sooners were.  Tulsa race riot?  Squat.

Liars and cheats lead the way in the Land of the Red Man ever since Statehood.

[azbadpuppy]

I did not grow up in Tulsa or Oklahoma, but how much Tulsa history was actually taught in school?  If very little was taught, then little surprise there was nothing on the race riots.  If you teach the race riots, then I think a broader Tulsa history should also be taught.

I think it's required in elementary, junior and senior high, unless that's changed. Maybe they have combined it all into high school now? Regardless, quite a bit of state history is taught, especially considering Oklahoma is such a relatively new state. Isn't it odd that arguably one of the most important and poignant events is absent?

[custosnox]

Insightful post...

Custo, the problem is racism goes unnoticed.

Conan, do you think people change? He's certainly learned about diet.

Tulsa is a better place these days. I'd attribute it to the integration of schools which opened the door to communication and understanding. Our sanctuaries seem more tolerant as well. Unfortunately, the melt down of family and hard economic times sets progress back. The bigger conflict is between the haves and the have nots.

What's worst, to have it go unnoticed or to claim everything is about race?  I think it is far better to take care of the problem where it does exist and is prevalent and work our way down to the places it hides, but trying to look for it everywhere, despite if it exists or not, is futile.  Worse yet, it undermines the legitimate efforts being done.