3 dead, 2 injured in series of shootings

[Teatownclown]

I told you Sharpton wouldn't come here.

NYtimes article in today on McLain area. Poverty sux. Makes people crazy.

[Conan71]

I think my head just exploded.  

Why not get the federal government to investigate why black people are many more times likely to be killed by another black person?  I believe I read some DOJ stats recently a black person is five times more likely to be killed by another black person.  There's a far bigger problem of black on black violence.

Secondly, whether we like it or not, these two scumbags have the right to have the case reviewed prior to any and all charges being filed.  The DA says he's waiting on reports and evidence from the TPD prior to filing hate crime charges.  The DA has to act within the law.  Bringing in a couple of race-baiters and agitators does nothing but ratchet up fear and hatred.  

Am I the only person who believes a visit by either $harpton or Jack$on will do nothing to improve racial relations in Tulsa?  Someone explain how it would benefit.  I honestly cannot believe the greater black community thinks of these two as leaders.

The Rev. Jesse Jackson will be in town this weekend arguing that the federal government needs to get involved in Tulsa's Good Friday shooting spree that left three people dead.

Jackson will meet with north Tulsa ministers and elected officials at noon Friday at First Baptist Church North Tulsa, and will hold a public rally at the church at 6 p.m. Saturday.

He was invited to Tulsa by the State Legislative Black Caucus and local ministers.

Jackson said in a conference phone call Wednesday afternoon that the Tulsa shootings were not an isolated crime, but part of a pattern of attacks on blacks across the nation that the federal government needs to investigate.

"This year there have been 29 black men and one black woman killed by police," he said.

What in the hell does this have to do with the Tulsa case?  NOTHING!

He listed several recent cases of violence against blacks, including the Trayvon Martin case, in which the black Forida teen was shot and killed in a gated community by a neighborhood watch member who is of Hispanic and white heritage.

"There are a number of unsolved murders of black people" in Oklahoma, he said.

There's a number of unsolved murders of white people, Asians, Native Americans, Hispanics, etc. ad nauseum.

"There is a pattern of attacks on blacks here, and that's why we're urging the Department of Justice and the FBI to intervene. It's not unlike the old South, where local officials spent an awful lot of time covering their tracks.

Anyone else seen any track covering here?

"What we really want is security and justice," he said.

The act of security in this case was very rapid.  Justice is forthcoming.

"Frankly, I cannot separate these acts from the mean-spirited attacks on the president himself," he said. "He's called stupid, not a member of our religion, ... There's a toxic environment that's raining down."

Mmmhmmm politicking.

Jackson praised Tulsa authorities and police for moving quickly and apprehending two men early Sunday in the Tulsa shootings, but said it was just a first step, "given the pattern of violent behavior against black people."

He said his Rainbow PUSH Coalition is working to change laws on concealed weapons and assault rifles and "stand your ground" laws, which he called an incentive to vigilantism.

Those laws serve to protect black people as well, dingleberry.  They are especially important in higher crime rate areas in which black people live to help them defend themselves from criminals in their own communities.

State Sen. Constance N. Johnson, D-Oklahoma City, chairwoman of the Black Caucus who was also on the conference call, commended local law enforcement, but said federal involvement was necessary to make sure justice is served in Tulsa courts.

No it's not necessary.  I believe everyone involved in this case realizes the seriousness.

"This is a powder keg waiting to explode," she said. "We want to assure the community that we're taking every step possible to make sure this will be a fair and just process. And we feel the Department of Justice will bring that objectivity to the state."

It's only a powder keg if you keep trying to gin up anger and make it appear as if not enough is being done to bring the shooters to justice.

Both Jackson and the Black Caucus members expressed dismay that Tulsa officials have not yet labeled the Tulsa shootings a hate crime.

"If someone intentionally goes looking for black people for revenge, shoots five and kills three, that's evidence of a hate crime and intentionality. ... That's fairly clear-cut," Jackson said.

Uh, ever hear of due process?  Helps to have all the facts at hand.  Once the DA has all the facts from the PD, I'm pretty sure there will be additional charges added.

"If the shoe had been on the other foot," he said, if it had been white victims of blacks, it would have been immediately labeled a hate crime.



Johnson said she was "astonished at the delay to label it a hate crime."

"We're going to review the hate crimes statute to see what is causing the Tulsa DA to not label this a hate crime," she said.

Contacted at his office Wednesday, Tulsa County District Attorney Tim Harris said it would be inappropriate for him to label the shootings a hate crime based on media reports.

"I will only make a decision based on sufficient investigation, and so far I've received nothing from the Tulsa Police Department," he said. "We're told that it's forthcoming."

"If the evidence supports a hate crime, I'll file a hate crime," he said.

Gwendolyn Fields, with the Advocacy Council in Oklahoma City, said the hate crime designation expresses the social values of a society, and if this is not prosecuted as a hate crime, it will show "disregard for the larger civil rights picture."

State Rep. Seneca Scott, who represents District 72, where the shootings occurred, said he will be looking at the hate crimes statute, and "what it takes to have a very clear protocol of when crimes are hate crimes. Now there is a degree of ambiguity," he said.

"The naming of it as a hate crime is pretty clear," he said. "If not this one, then what would be?"

Jackson is not the only high profile civil rights leader coming to Tulsa in the aftermath of the shootings.

The Rev. Al Sharpton will speak at a public meeting at 3 p.m. Sunday at Greater Union Baptist Church, 955 E. 36th St. North, along with the national president of the NAACP, Benjamin Jealous, said Greater Union Pastor Bob Kendrick, Sr.


Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=704&articleid=20120412_18_A1_CUTLIN982552

[Townsend]

I think my head just exploded.  

Why not get the federal government to investigate why black people are many more times likely to be killed by another black person?  I believe I read some DOJ stats recently a black person is five times more likely to be killed by another black person.  There's a far bigger problem of black on black violence.

Secondly, whether we like it or not, these two scumbags have the right to have the case reviewed prior to any and all charges being filed.  The DA says he's waiting on reports and evidence from the TPD prior to filing hate crime charges.  The DA has to act within the law.  Bringing in a couple of race-baiters and agitators does nothing but ratchet up fear and hatred.  

Am I the only person who believes a visit by either $harpton or Jack$on will do nothing to improve racial relations in Tulsa?  Someone explain how it would benefit.  I honestly cannot believe the greater black community thinks of these two as leaders.

Like any religious leader/entertainer, if they lose relevance,  they don't make money.  Gotta keep it out there.

[tulsa_fan]

So here are a few things that bother me, the protest, Blacks are Under Attack because a 9M+ bond was set?  let me refresh some memories here . . . Darren Price, one of the shooters who executed two white ORU students in Hicks Park, and then was interviewed about how he lets his daughter play at that park and can't believe something like this would happen . . . 

Name: PRICE, DARREN  Gender: M  Race: B
D.O.B.: 5/11/1992 Height: 5' 09"  Weight: 210
DLM: 1202711 Hair: BLK  Eyes: BRO

Offenses
Description Case # Court Date Bond Type Bond Amt Disposition
MURDER 1ST DEGREE CF11-3734 4/26/2012 Surety Bond $1,000,000.00   
MURDER 1ST DEGREE CF11-3734 4/26/2012 Surety Bond $1,000,000.00   
ROBBERY CF11-3734 4/26/2012   $25,000.00   
ROBBERY CF11-3734 4/26/2012   $25,000.00   
POSS FIREARM AFCF CF11-3734 4/26/2012 Surety Bond $10,000.00   
ELUDING CF11-3734 4/26/2012 Surety Bond $500.00   
CHEROKEE COUNTY/KIDNAPPING      $0.00   

My husband reminded me last night they are looking for more suspects in the Straight murder and assault.  If you know the details about, it should make you physically ill.  Where is the disgust with that?  Why is a black man who picks out a white couple living in that area not a hate crime? 

The point is, I don't want to live and evaluate every situation like that.  But right now it's being forced down my throat.    I think the guys picked their area for two reasons, one . . Cherokee Manor is where his father was killed, that's where the first victim was shot.  Also, they live in flipping Turley, you think they are going to go far from home and their escape?  I fully believe if this circumstance was different and the shooters lived in Glenpool and their father was killed by a white person at 111th & Yale, they'd be near that area shooting whoever they could find, and ya know, demographics of that area show there's a pretty big chance the victims would be white.

And finally the NAACP president owes our Police Department a sincere apology.  How dare he say North Tulsa leaders had to get involved because they don't trust TPD and didn't want this swept under the rug?  Really, a triple homicide, show me anywhere anyone has ever questioned the integrity of our homicide unit, their excellent solve rate . . .  long before you were picking out your clothes for the photo ops, our officers had been running non stop since 1:00 am hunting down the killers.  The Homicide Unit and Warrants and many other clocked in about 1 am and didn't leave again until 8 am Sunday morning . . . not for one moment. 

[Conan71]

TF- I don't see how anyone could fault the work of the TPD or DA's office at this point. It's obvious proper priority was placed on the case and the DA is awaiting all proper evidence which will help avoid any claims of civil rights violations or irregularities as a possible defense for the suspects.  Myself and others I've talked to thought a $9+ million bond each made a far bigger statement than "no bond" in this incident.

I'm hoping both these jokers will spare us a trial, plead guilty and go away for the rest of their natural lives.

Anyone know if the White Officer's Coalition and the Congressional White Caucus ever weighed in on the Hicks Park killings?

Oh, yeah that's right, we don't have either of those organizations because they would be exclusionary and racist.  

[tulsa_fan]

The NAACP president called his meeting on Saturday morning, while our guys were still busting their balls trying to figure this out and catch the killers . . . . and I agree, no one can fight for justice of the white man, because that's racist . . . . we can't we just fight for justice for all?  Oh wait, we don't even say the pledge anymore because we might offend someone ... PULLING MY HAIR OUT!!!  I stay out of this crap because it makes me CRAZY!!!!!!

[patric]

I told you Sharpton wouldn't come here.

NYtimes article in today on McLain area. Poverty sux. Makes people crazy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/12/us/tulsa-shootings-came-in-struggling-neighborhoods.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120412

[Townsend]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/12/us/tulsa-shootings-came-in-struggling-neighborhoods.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120412

They certainly can paint a grim picture.  We are evil evil evil here in Tulsa.

[jacobi]

ttp://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/12/us/tulsa-shootings-came-in-struggling-neighborhoods.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120412

I feel freakin' picked on.  Tell me about all the completely occupied and affluent areas of uptown and the south bronx, NYT?  You must be a model of racial intergration, right?  More than anything, we know!  We know that North Tulsa has it bad! But, there isn't much that we as individuals can do about it. Our city is in shock, proud of our police response, and still mourning and you kick us in the nuts?  Thanks NYT, see if I do your crossword puzzle again.


Alright, I'll do the crossword, damnit...

[Conan71]

Interesting how Rev. Jack$on is against stand your ground laws.  Ironically, Pernell Jefferson was not charged in the death of England's father ostensibly because such a law exists.

The attacks occurred the day after the two-year anniversary of the death of Mr. England's father, Carl. The elder Mr. England was shot and killed on April 5, 2010, at a public housing apartment complex near the scene of the shootings, and the man who was a person of interest in the case, Pernell Jefferson, is black. The Tulsa County District Attorney's Office declined to file homicide charges against Mr. Jefferson, ruling that he was justified in using deadly force in self-defense under Oklahoma law.

[nathanm]

Those laws serve to protect black people as well, dingleberry.  They are especially important in higher crime rate areas in which black people live to help them defend themselves from criminals in their own communities.

Those laws often don't serve to protect black people. Blacks are much more likely to be found to not be protected by SYG laws, for whatever reason. That doesn't appear to be the case in Oklahoma, but it has been the case in several southern states where you'd expect the racists to be out in force so his opposition is quite understandable, although largely irrelevant to the case at hand.

As I mentioned previously in the thread, I used to not really believe in the pervasiveness of racism in the modern day US. What made it possible to accept was this only marginally related train of thought: I have never in my life seen someone catcall a woman. Ever. Not even in NYC, where everyone says it is nearly constant. Women, however, tell me that it happens to them almost daily. Clearly they're either liars or I just don't notice when it happens because I'm not the one being harassed. So I learned to accept that things happen to women that I don't notice.

It wasn't long before I realized I was making the same oversight with regard to racism. I pretty much have a choice. I can either believe that Sharpton and millions of black people are all liars who exaggerate the incidence of racism in their daily experience or I can believe what they're telling me, that racism still impacts them on an almost daily basis.

Arguing with people about their personal experience is unproductive, to say the least.

[Conan71]

Do you have DOJ stats to back that up on SYG?  I've not seen them.

I suppose it depends on the filter one views life through.  If you have others constantly telling you it's a racist world and you will never catch a break because of your skin color, national origin, or sex then you will eventually believe that.  None of my black friends seem to operate from that point of view, but they are mostly college educated and came from traditional family units, or grew up in the islands and migrated here so they didn't come from the ghetto.

If a black person applies for a welding position at my company and he's never welded a bead in his life, it's not discrimination against his color why he's not hired, it's because he doesn't have the necessary skills.  He certainly can leave and say he wasn't hired because there are no other black people working here, therefore we must all be racists and have racist hiring practices.

If a black couple gets inattentive service at a restaurant or bar, they can make the assumption they are getting poor service because they are black or they can look around and see the server is obviously stoned and giving everyone in her station poor service. etc.

If your first reaction to everything which goes wrong in your life is because of your skin color, that's a really sad existence.  Shame on the people who preach such a hopeless message.

JMO, I think people like $harpton and Jack$on are poor representatives of the black community because they spew a message of hatred, retribution, and hopelessness and seldom seem to be in touch with reality as it relates to due process and criminal and civil law.  The whole purpose of Jack$on's visit, aside from keeping money flowing into his coffers, is to make it appear as if Tulsa still has this dark cloak of racism that's everywhere and which is ultimately responsible for this crime.  I'm sorry but I'm pretty livid at that sort of stupid wholesale logic which strives to make you and I as culpable in this triple homicide as the two asshats who committed the crime.  Did you help foment this?  I sure didn't.

What if this had been two black men who committed the crime with the same motive?  Is that not a hate-motivated crime?  Why does hatred have to be defined by color, sex, or sexual orientation?

I'm sick and tired of black people being mired in poverty and crime while being lied to that it's whitey keeping them from leaving the projects when it's their own apathy toward education and not being willing to provide a positive role model for their own children.  Talk about a message of hopelessness.  People are as free to leave that existence as they are aware it's possible to.

[nathanm]

I'm sick and tired of black people being mired in poverty and crime while being lied to that it's whitey keeping them from leaving the projects when it's their own apathy toward education and not being willing to provide a positive role model for their own children.  Talk about a message of hopelessness.  People are as free to leave that existence as they are aware it's possible to.

Well, if free to do something means working against a system stacked against you in almost every way, from the acceptance of lower school performance in black neighborhoods to the lack of public transportation, to the much greater chance of being harassed by the police, then yes, they are in fact free to do it. However, in recognition of the actual human condition, I'm not going to hold it against somebody if they don't have the mental strength to navigate layer upon layer of BS that the rest of us don't have to deal with. I'm not going to hold it against them if they have little time for self improvement because they spend four hours a day on the bus getting to and from work because our bus system is so poorly funded.

The mere fact that it is often seen as exceptional when someone does make it out of the ghetto should give you some indication as to how difficult and rare this is.

[Conan71]

Well, if free to do something means working against a system stacked against you in almost every way, from the acceptance of lower school performance in black neighborhoods to the lack of public transportation, to the much greater chance of being harassed by the police, then yes, they are in fact free to do it. However, in recognition of the actual human condition, I'm not going to hold it against somebody if they don't have the mental strength to navigate layer upon layer of BS that the rest of us don't have to deal with. I'm not going to hold it against them if they have little time for self improvement because they spend four hours a day on the bus getting to and from work because our bus system is so poorly funded.

The mere fact that it is often seen as exceptional when someone does make it out of the ghetto should give you some indication as to how difficult and rare this is.

But the fact is, white people who live in the same depressed areas face the same struggles to get out as their black neighbors.  It's more a pathological poverty issue, not something caused by the color of their skin.  I'd also argue it's easier for a black child from the same housing project to get financial aid for college than a white child, or for a black person to get a civil service job than their white neighbor due to EOE and AA.  That's why the notion that their skin color is keeping them down makes me bristle.

As far as four hours spent riding a bus, even a marginal bicycle rider can make 10 MPH average on a $40 bike from Craigslist.  Couldn't resist.  Yes, I do plan on riding to work even when it's bitter cold so long as there isn't snow or ice on the ground.  But, point taken that without a form of personal transportation it can be hard to get around in a timely manner.

[DolfanBob]

A Marshall's for my friend Conan ! Kudos. I truly do not know from what cloth we are cut. But it comes from the same origin.