Palace Clothing Building/Old Arby's

[swake]

Sounds like this building is toast:

From the World, due to damage from the quake last year the building is condemned. Arby's has closed and will not reopen.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20121226_11_0_Oklaho108344

Oklahoma's November 2011 earthquake likely caused the structural damage that resulted Wednesday in the closing of a downtown building.

Work crews erected barricades and scaffolding around the Excalibur Building, 324 S. Main St., after an engineering report received Christmas Eve recommended the building be evacuated. The report cited damage to supporting columns as well as exterior cracks.

John Bair, president of World Publishing, said masonry and cement from the building's exterior fell to the sidewalk in late August this year, prompting a thorough engineering inspection. Bair said the barriers were put up as a safety measure and that the building is still being evaluated.

The building, owned by World Publishing, has been vacant for some time except for an Arby's restaurant on the first floor. The restaurant has closed and is not expected to reopen.

[TheArtist]

  So wonder what the odds are of the next article being about how prohibitively expensive it would be to make repairs, and thus the building must be torn down?

[cannon_fodder]

Baracades are up.  The building is coming down (my guess, I have no inside info on that).

The Tulsa World/Lortons strike again!  When was the last time they BUILT anything in Tulsa?

They are blaming the 2011 Earthquake, but keep in mind that as of June 2012 they said there were no plans to demolish the building.  Recall:

But Bobby Lorton Jr., publisher and CEO of the Tulsa World, told This Land in an email "there is no planned demolition" of the Excaliber Building.

He wrote: "We have not leased office space in this building for several years. It has been cheaper to operate the building without tenants above the ground level as rent from the small number of tenants we had never covered the utility expense. We also had a number of problems with homeless people breaking into the facility and the resulting damage from their intrusion. Once we closed off access to the upper floors of this building this problem stopped."

—Holly Wall, News Editor

http://thislandpress.com/roundups/excaliber-building-wont-be-demolished-tulsa-world-says/

I know a person who rented space in that building and everyone was evicted from the building.  The idea at the time, as I understand it, was to grab money to turn it into lofts.  That did not happen... so claim earthquake damage?  Correct me if I am wrong, but were any other buildings within 50 miles damaged by the earthquakes?

The rumor was they were looking for a way to repurposes this building years ago.  That fell through.  The rumor was then that they wanted to tear it down to save some money (instead of investing in it to make money).  They flat out denied that.  Now we have earthquake damage which gives them an excuse to tear it down, void their Arby's lease, subvert a new moratorium on surface parking, and (possibly) collect an insurance check.  I'm sure they are greatly saddened.

PLEASE INVEST in Downtown Tulsa.  You are the Tulsa  World yet other than TCC you have torn down more Tulsa buildings than anyone else in the last 15 years.  Don't destroy my world.  If you ahve to tear it down, build something in its place.  Show some vision, some leadership, some confidence in your City.

[stageidea]

I thought that was said quite eloquently cannon_fodder.  I think it is cool building and would hate for it to be torn down.  

[cannon_fodder]

According to an article in the World this morning, the Arby's lease was up at the end of March and was "not expected to be renewed."  So a decision was coming on this building anyway.  I just really hope I am jumping the gun on the conclusion that it will become a surface parking lot.

Per the World Article:

1913: Built in 1913 - 1917.
1960: Palace Clothiers was the prime tenant for 50 years.  Out of business in 1960.
1997: Tulsa World bought in in 1997 (it was mixed office space).

2008: The tenants were all evicted in 2008 (or 2009?).
2011: Earthquake was on November, 6 of 2011 (5.6 Magnitude 75 miles SW of Tulsa) - no structural damage was reported in Tulsa (typically structural damage does not accure at all under 6.0 per the Tulsa World's article)
May 2012: Rumor that the World was planning on demolishing the building
June 2012: Tulsa World states that it has no plans to demolish the building (to This Land Press)
August 2012:  Tulsa World fears the buiding is unstable and comissions an engineering report
Dec. 24, 2012:  Engineering report declares the building unstable due to Earthquake Damage
Dec. 26 2012:  Building closed off

March, 2013:  Arby's lease set to expire, "was not expected to be renewed."


http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20121227_16_E1_TheNov173978


Maybe I'm just a cynic, but . . . .  I really hope I am wrong.  Would be great to see a new building there or to see this one repurposed.  ANYTHING but more surface parking.  For the love of God, there are more than a dozen surface parking lots and more than half a dozen parking garages within two blocks of there.  I can not stress enough how much surface parking kills an urban area.

[sgrizzle]

Kudos to TLP for being on top of this one and likely causing the TW to try and wait 6-12 months so we wouldn't "catch on"

[PonderInc]

6 months.  That should be long enough before everyone forgets everything that Bobby Lorton said last summer.

Wonder who they paid to be the "engineering firm?"  Did the engineer say the damage was irreparable or did the Lorton family say that?  

Remember when they declared the Skelly Building to be "functionally obsolete," and the "highest best use" of the property ended up being... a 14 space surface parking lot?  This was not an opinion shared by the professionals I spoke with who had also inspected that building.

Ahhh.  The Tulsa World.  It would be better for downtown if they just moved their declining (should I say "functionally obsolete?") operation to some warehouse in a light industrial area of town.  We don't need them downtown, and there's no reason why they need an additional 14 space parking lot.

[Oil Capital]

6 months.  That should be long enough before everyone forgets everything that Bobby Lorton said last summer.

Wonder who they paid to be the "engineering firm?"  Did the engineer say the damage was irreparable or did the Lorton family say that?  

Remember when they declared the Skelly Building to be "functionally obsolete," and the "highest best use" of the property ended up being... a 14 space surface parking lot?  This was not an opinion shared by the professionals I spoke with who had also inspected that building.

Ahhh.  The Tulsa World.  It would be better for downtown if they just moved their declining (should I say "functionally obsolete?") operation to some warehouse in a light industrial area of town.  We don't need them downtown, and there's no reason why they need an additional 14 space parking lot.

+1

[AquaMan]

The article mentioned pieces of pre-cast concrete and terra cotta having fallen off the building. That does give one pause when an engineering report shows damage to the base piers of the building. They did have some press equipment in the basement of that building iirc.

But I am skeptical as well. If this building showed earthquake damage to its underpinnings, its time to do an evaluation of ALL downtown buildings built in that time period that exceed two stories. That would give many downtown building owners a chance to trash their buildings too.

[patric]

The article mentioned pieces of pre-cast concrete and terra cotta having fallen off the building. That does give one pause when an engineering report shows damage to the base piers of the building. They did have some press equipment in the basement of that building iirc.

But I am skeptical as well. If this building showed earthquake damage to its underpinnings, its time to do an evaluation of ALL downtown buildings built in that time period that exceed two stories. That would give many downtown building owners a chance to trash their buildings too.

So why wasnt the World building evacuated when they found "structurally unsound" supporting columns in the common basement they share with the Excalibur?
If the columns were to give way, the closest hollow void is the connecting World building basement.

[DowntownDan]

Baracades are up.  The building is coming down (my guess, I have no inside info on that).

The Tulsa World/Lortons strike again!  When was the last time they BUILT anything in Tulsa?

They are blaming the 2011 Earthquake, but keep in mind that as of June 2012 they said there were no plans to demolish the building.  Recall:
http://thislandpress.com/roundups/excaliber-building-wont-be-demolished-tulsa-world-says/

I know a person who rented space in that building and everyone was evicted from the building.  The idea at the time, as I understand it, was to grab money to turn it into lofts.  That did not happen... so claim earthquake damage?  Correct me if I am wrong, but were any other buildings within 50 miles damaged by the earthquakes?

The rumor was they were looking for a way to repurposes this building years ago.  That fell through.  The rumor was then that they wanted to tear it down to save some money (instead of investing in it to make money).  They flat out denied that.  Now we have earthquake damage which gives them an excuse to tear it down, void their Arby's lease, subvert a new moratorium on surface parking, and (possibly) collect an insurance check.  I'm sure they are greatly saddened.PLEASE INVEST in Downtown Tulsa.  You are the Tulsa  World yet other than TCC you have torn down more Tulsa buildings than anyone else in the last 15 years.  Don't destroy my world.  If you ahve to tear it down, build something in its place.  Show some vision, some leadership, some confidence in your City.

The bolded part is what makes me skeptical.  The timing and the excuses and the need for them all add up just too neatly to be coincidence.  They want to demolish a building that would be impossible or at least unpopular and this give them an excuse to do it.  "It's beyond our control I tells ya!"

[Weatherdemon]

So why wasnt the World building evacuated when they found "structurally unsound" supporting columns in the common basement they share with the Excalibur?
If the columns were to give way, the closest hollow void is the connecting World building basement.

Because it is BS.

No way earthquake damage of that magnitude took a year to find when no other building within 100 miles of the epicenter suffered any significant structural damage except the church that was within 10 miles of it.

The worst damage in Tulsa was small cracks in sheetrock and a couple poorly attached brick facades crumbling.

I think the city should mandate a third inspection with more than one inspector to validate this inspectors findings and until then, the Tulsa World building that shares the basement be evacuated to ensure their employees are safe.

If indeed this buildings piers were damage enough that there is a risk of collapse then the poster above is correct in that every structure over 5 stories within 75 miles of the epicenter should be re-inspected.

[bacjz00]

Because it is BS.

No way earthquake damage of that magnitude took a year to find when no other building within 100 miles of the epicenter suffered any significant structural damage except the church that was within 10 miles of it.

The worst damage in Tulsa was small cracks in sheetrock and a couple poorly attached brick facades crumbling.

I think the city should mandate a third inspection with more than one inspector to validate this inspectors findings and until then, the Tulsa World building that shares the basement be evacuated to ensure their employees are safe.

If indeed this buildings piers were damage enough that there is a risk of collapse then the poster above is correct in that every structure over 5 stories within 75 miles of the epicenter should be re-inspected.

+1 Damon

[swake]

Because it is BS.

No way earthquake damage of that magnitude took a year to find when no other building within 100 miles of the epicenter suffered any significant structural damage except the church that was within 10 miles of it.

The worst damage in Tulsa was small cracks in sheetrock and a couple poorly attached brick facades crumbling.

I think the city should mandate a third inspection with more than one inspector to validate this inspectors findings and until then, the Tulsa World building that shares the basement be evacuated to ensure their employees are safe.

If indeed this buildings piers were damage enough that there is a risk of collapse then the poster above is correct in that every structure over 5 stories within 75 miles of the epicenter should be re-inspected.

I don't think downtown Tulsa was within 75 miles of the epicenter anyway. The epicenter was close to Norman and Shawnee.

[BKDotCom]

I saw whom I've always assumed was the manager for this location outside the bldg today (redhead).
She showed no ill-will...  I told her a lot of people think the "earthquake damage" thing is a sham.
She says she's seen the damage and doesn't dispute it.
I asked her if they plan to relocate and got a "we hope so."