Tulsa ranked in America's Top 50 Bike Cities

[Red Arrow]

One thing that cyclists do that really does irritate me is for them to pass a line of cars at a stop sign or traffic light to get in front and then take the lane.  If you want to be treated like traffic, take your place in line with the rest of us.  I've had that happen numerous times when I leave the cyclist a safe distance waiting for a safe opportunity to pass only to have them hug the shoulder to get past the waiting line of cars.  That kind of attitude by cyclists does little to help their cause.

[guido911]

What if they are going to Texas Roadhouse or whatever the heck is out there?

All right. I'll give you that one. See, I'm agreeable.

My overall point is along Red's issue. You have a large, perhaps several ton, moving object made of metal trying to share space with what can be a child's toy. It's an absolutely unnecessary risk to everyone involved. From a liability point of view, if you are a cyclist and are hurt in a vehicular accident, expect to hear about comparative negligence when you look to have someone else pay your damages.

[ZYX]

All right. I'll give you that one. See, I'm agreeable.

My overall point is along Red's issue. You have a large, perhaps several ton, moving object made of metal trying to share space with what can be a child's toy. It's an absolutely unnecessary risk to everyone involved. From a liability point of view, if you are a cyclist and are hurt in a vehicular accident, expect to hear about comparative negligence when you look to have someone else pay your damages.

How in the world is it an unnecessary risk to everyone involved? What if that is their only form of transportation? Is the "risk" then still unnecessary? How are you at risk? Are you not capable of following at a safe distance until it is safe to pass? Just because someone's in your way doesn't mean they're in the wrong.

I've realized how impatient people are now that I've started driving. I'll be driving along in a car clearly marked "Student Driver" and I am tailgated, passed illegally etc., while going the speed limit. I think it would be good for everyone to just have a little patience.

[guido911]

How in the world is it an unnecessary risk to everyone involved? What if that is their only form of transportation? Is the "risk" then still unnecessary? How are you at risk? Are you not capable of following at a safe distance until it is safe to pass?

Because I have spent enough time in court and litigation over this precise issue. How about you?

And if you saw my first point, I was speaking to those persons who cycle for exercise. These are the people that are often dressed like the tour de France is in town. I haven't seen too many persons traveling on Memorial in the center lane, or on 111th between Sheridan and Memorial for that matter, on bikes just to get around. Also, I haven't seen too many bikes at the Walgreen's drive thru, or parked out front of Target either. Where are all of these bicycle-reliant people anyway?

[Conan71]

Do you and Ed want to have a debate on lawful use of the roadways by cyclists? I'll be happy to have it. For now, a cyclist doing 10-15 mph down the center of a lane in a 45 mph zone is in the way. Sorry. It's selfish and dangerous. And I bike!!

There are miles and miles trails along Riverside. If we need more, then let's raise the money and pay for it. IMO, two-lane, main arterials like 101st and 111th are to move vehicular traffic. Seriously, do we want bike-riders on 71st between Memorial and Mingo at 5:30 on a Friday?

Sorry, I re-read, I was picturing the stretch from Yale west to Louisville.  If the cyclist was between Sheridan & Yale and hugging the middle without an intention to turn left and a clear hand-signal to turn he/she was being a complete dooshbag and trying to qualify for a Darwin.  The only other excuse would be if the edge of the road was really rough.  Legally, cyclists are supposed to ride as close to the right side of the road as they safely can do it. 

[ZYX]

They all live in a place called "Mid-town," or maybe even "Downtown." You know......in "Tulsa." People like you and me aren't supposed to go there.  

Most people out here probably ride for exercise, but I still have no problem with them being on the roads, as long as they aren't deliberately trying to cause problems. Ones riding in the very middle are probably trying to cause problems.
However, I have never seen this happen so I'll take it as a rare occurrence.

[Conan71]

One thing that cyclists do that really does irritate me is for them to pass a line of cars at a stop sign or traffic light to get in front and then take the lane.  If you want to be treated like traffic, take your place in line with the rest of us.  I've had that happen numerous times when I leave the cyclist a safe distance waiting for a safe opportunity to pass only to have them hug the shoulder to get past the waiting line of cars.  That kind of attitude by cyclists does little to help their cause.

Cyclist dooshbaggery at it's worst.  I always admonish others that if you want to be treated with respect in traffic you need to obey the laws everyone else does.  Stop sign running, cutting in line, etc. is not only stupid, it's a bad image for cyclists.  It's unfortunate that the impression some of the bad ones leave becomes the perception of the rest of us.

[guido911]

Sorry, I re-read, I was picturing the stretch from Yale west to Louisville.  If the cyclist was between Sheridan & Yale and hugging the middle without an intention to turn left and a clear hand-signal to turn he/she was being a complete dooshbag and trying to qualify for a Darwin.  The only other excuse would be if the edge of the road was really rough.  Legally, cyclists are supposed to ride as close to the right side of the road as they safely can do it. 

Almost the letter of law. Good work.

[Red Arrow]

I've realized how impatient people are now that I've started driving. I'll be driving along in a car clearly marked "Student Driver" and I am tailgated, passed illegally etc., while going the speed limit. I think it would be good for everyone to just have a little patience.

I noticed you said you were going the speed limit but in general:

After you have followed enough drivers going 35 in a 45 for a few miles with no passing zones available, you will start to call them discourteous.  The time saved by going around them is often lost at the next traffic light but it feels good to get around someone with a bumper sticker that says "I may be slow but I'm ahead of you".  

I had to follow a student driver on Delaware/121st a while back that was going only about 30.  The driving school web site name was on the car.  I sent an email with the time, date, location, and car ID asking why they were teaching drivers to be discourteous or was the student not ready to be out of the parking lot.  I actually got an email back saying the owner would ask the instructor for some details and that the car should have been closer to the speed limit given the traffic and road conditions.

It also reminds me of the cartoon of two buzzards overlooking a bunch of nothing.  On says to the other "Patience he!!, let's go kill something".

[guido911]

They all live in a place called "Mid-town," or maybe even "Downtown." You know......in "Tulsa." People like you and me aren't supposed to go there.  

Most people out here probably ride for exercise, but I still have no problem with them being on the roads, as long as they aren't deliberately trying to cause problems. Ones riding in the very middle are probably trying to cause problems.
However, I have never seen this happen so I'll take it as a rare occurrence.

Down this way, there are several newer subdivisions that are large enough that a few laps can be several miles. While you may not get the high speeds, you can certainly get a decent work out and also say "hi" to people just hanging out in their front yards. I've met several people this way, and now that I run more in these places, I can actually stop to chat with them.

On a health note, any other runners and cyclists out there? I seem to get my heart rate way higher on a bike than while running. And another thing, and I think Conman could relate as a few others in here, at my age I am stronger now than I was 10-15 years ago. So what am I saying? Get off your arses and get after it....

[guido911]

I noticed you said you were going the speed limit but in general:

After you have followed enough drivers going 35 in a 45 for a few miles with no passing zones available, you will start to call them discourteous.  The time saved by going around them is often lost at the next traffic light but it feels good to get around someone with a bumper sticker that says "I may be slow but I'm ahead of you".  

I had to follow a student driver on Delaware/121st a while back that was going only about 30.  The driving school web site name was on the car.  I sent an email with the time, date, location, and car ID asking why they were teaching drivers to be discourteous or was the student not ready to be out of the parking lot.  I actually got an email back saying the owner would ask the instructor for some details and that the car should have been closer to the speed limit given the traffic and road conditions.

It also reminds me of the cartoon of two buzzards overlooking a bunch of nothing.  On says to the other "Patience he!!, let's go kill something".

And when you get in front of that bozo with the "I may be slow but I'm ahead of you", bumper sticker, make sure your "I'd rather be choking you out" sticker is visible to them. 

[Red Arrow]

And when you get in front of that bozo with the "I may be slow but I'm ahead of you", bumper sticker, make sure your "I'd rather be choking you out" sticker is visible to them. 

We (the family) once had a car that didn't need that sticker.  I would pull into the full serve gas station (yes, quite a while ago) and tell the attendant to fill the oil and check the gas.  Really, we did.

[Red Arrow]

OK all you legal cycling experts:

I have a unicycle.  Would it be legal for me to ride it and take the lane on Memorial.  I don't want to because I don't have a death wish.  I am just wondering.  I can go about 5 mph.  Would a bicycle need to leave me 3 feet when passing?  How would you hot-shot bicyclists feel if you had to follow a pack of 5 mph unicycles?

[custosnox]

I've realized how impatient people are now that I've started driving. I'll be driving along in a car clearly marked "Student Driver" and I am tailgated, passed illegally etc., while going the speed limit. I think it would be good for everyone to just have a little patience.

Honestly, when I see student driver I tend to intentionally do some buzzing.  Not enough to actually cause a wreck, but just enough to remind them to be alert for what the other idiots on the road are doing.  It's my own additional "lesson" I like to give.

[ZYX]

Honestly, when I see student driver I tend to intentionally do some buzzing.  Not enough to actually cause a wreck, but just enough to remind them to be alert for what the other idiots on the road are doing.  It's my own additional "lesson" I like to give.

Have you forgotten the stress of being behind the wheel for the first time? Everyone feels like they need to teach us young'uns a lesson, because we need to be prepared for all the idiot drivers in the world. Well, guess what, we come across those same idiots you do.

Intentionally driving worse around inexperienced drivers is a terribble idea. The slightest thing that you might consider to be easy to deal with could cause a student driver to overreact and oversteer, which very well could cause an accident.

I noticed you said you were going the speed limit but in general:

After you have followed enough drivers going 35 in a 45 for a few miles with no passing zones available, you will start to call them discourteous.  The time saved by going around them is often lost at the next traffic light but it feels good to get around someone with a bumper sticker that says "I may be slow but I'm ahead of you". 

I had to follow a student driver on Delaware/121st a while back that was going only about 30.  The driving school web site name was on the car.  I sent an email with the time, date, location, and car ID asking why they were teaching drivers to be discourteous or was the student not ready to be out of the parking lot.  I actually got an email back saying the owner would ask the instructor for some details and that the car should have been closer to the speed limit given the traffic and road conditions.

It also reminds me of the cartoon of two buzzards overlooking a bunch of nothing.  On says to the other "Patience he!!, let's go kill something".

My situation was as follows:

I was driving along a two lane highway, south of Bixby, where for most of the driving the speed limit was 65. In those portions of the road I did my best to stay about that speed and to not impede the flow of traffic. I then saw a sign dictating the speed limit to be 45 mph as opposed to 65mph. I adjusted my speed accordingly. Other drivers seemed to have no problems with this, and maintained reasonable following distances. As we got on further down the road, I never saw a sign indicating that the speed limit had increased, but the driver behind me was following way too close for comfort, so I sped up to about 55mph. The instructor had no objection to this. After continuing with this for about a mile, people began passing me. I have no problem with that, but these weren't all safe, or even legal passes. Many were around curves or across double yellow lines, and that did make me nervous. I was obviously impeding the flow of traffic, but I'm not going to speed up to the flow of traffic when a) it was to my knowledge against the law, and b) I didn't feel at all comfortable traveling at that speed.

That is why I feel that others should cut a bit of slack to student drivers. We're not prepared to react to an emergency situation, so please do your best not to create one.