Romney's offshore investments

[RecycleMichael]

Does it bother you republicans that Mitt Romney has stashed millions of dollars into offshore banks to avoid paying taxes? While it is legal for a private citizen to do so, what does it say about a man who wants to be president of America?

I would think that most people would expect the president to set a higher standard for behavior than that.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2012-01-20/romney-offshore-accounts/52700400/1

Excerpts...

"If you have a foreign investor who is making income largely abroad and doesn't want to be subject to U.S. regulations and reporting, it's a plus," said C. Eugene Steuerle, co-founder of the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center and former deputy assistant treasury secretary for tax analysis.

A wealthy investor who has no immediate need for the money would be able to keep the investment offshore indefinitely, never paying U.S. taxes on it.

 

[Conan71]

Does it bother you republicans that Mitt Romney has stashed millions of dollars into offshore banks to avoid paying taxes? While it is legal for a private citizen to do so, what does it say about a man who wants to be president of America?

I would think that most people would expect the president to set a higher standard for behavior than that.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2012-01-20/romney-offshore-accounts/52700400/1

Excerpts...

"If you have a foreign investor who is making income largely abroad and doesn't want to be subject to U.S. regulations and reporting, it's a plus," said C. Eugene Steuerle, co-founder of the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center and former deputy assistant treasury secretary for tax analysis.

A wealthy investor who has no immediate need for the money would be able to keep the investment offshore indefinitely, never paying U.S. taxes on it.

 

He's a private citizen and is engaging in perfectly legal activity.  I believe the Clintons engage in such activity and I suspect the Obamas will as well to help protect their wealth once they are out of office and no longer subject to such scrutiny.

Secondly, if profits were earned in 100% off-shore operations, why should the U.S. Government have a claim for taxes on that profit?  Let's say you operated a business in the UK.  You were taxed in the UK on those operations.  Why should you be taxed on that money if you never bring it to the U.S.?

Next straw man, please....

[Gaspar]

Not really.

Of his quarter of a billion dollar fortune, 6 funds are off shore, and those are a trust and an IRA.  Neither of which are currently taxable.  All of the funds are subject to taxation upon disbursement just like everyone else's. I own two foreign funds, not because I am trying to dodge anything, but because that is where the fund sponsorship was set up.  Probably for the same reasons.

Five of the Cayman-based funds are included within a blind trust for Romney's wife, Ann, and worth between $2.8 million and $7.6 million.
A sixth fund, called Bain Capital Investment Partners Trust Associates lll, is part of Romney's IRA retirement account and worth between $5 million and $25 million.

I actually kind of like the idea that we may be electing a president that understands the ridiculous burden imposed by our 6,000 page tax system. Instead of adding complexity and additional layers of redistribution to support additional layers of entitlement, he is more likely to adopt drastic simplification.  I am sad that he probably will not go so far as to embrace a FAIR tax system, but anything is better than Tax & Spend.

As far as "fair share," I would be willing to bet that the amount of taxes paid by Romney every year is beyond significant.  Of course he is rich, so there is no amount that a liberal would feel is fair unless it rendered him no longer wealthy.   We will know soon enough when he releases his Taxes.

[RecycleMichael]

He already released two years of tax records. He made $45 million and paid a tax rate of 13.9%.

What percent did you pay?

[nathanm]

Secondly, if profits were earned in 100% off-shore operations, why should the U.S. Government have a claim for taxes on that profit?  Let's say you operated a business in the UK.  You were taxed in the UK on those operations.  Why should you be taxed on that money if you never bring it to the U.S.?

Apple has a business in Ireland, I believe. It just so happens that it gets most of the iTunes revenue worldwide. Should US companies be able to avoid taxation so easily?

[Red Arrow]

Why should you be taxed on that money if you never bring it to the U.S.?

It's an asset and you should be required to give it to the less fortunate.

[Red Arrow]

He already released two years of tax records. He made $45 million and paid a tax rate of 13.9%.

What percent did you pay?

Turbo Tax says 16.15% based on my AGI which does not include my 401K contributions.  The same tax on my AGI plus my 401K contributions is 13.46%.  That's less than Romney paid.   I also consider that 13.9% of $45 million is $6,255,000.  That's more in tax for one year than I will make in my lifetime unless something good happens really soon.

[Ed W]

I don't think the legal technicalities of hiding income off shore matter all that much.  We have a man running for President who doesn't pay taxes on his income, plain and simple.  We've never had a President who shirked that responsibility. 

[Conan71]

I don't think the legal technicalities of hiding income off shore matter all that much.  We have a man running for President who doesn't pay taxes on his income, plain and simple.  We've never had a President who shirked that responsibility. 

That's complete BS.  He pays taxes on his income.  He doesn't pay tax on assets which are sitting in what are essentially trust accounts, neither to you, neither do I.  When that money becomes income, he will be taxed on it.  Are you saying he should pay taxes on it simply because he wants to be president?  I'm not catching the logic there.  Take a look at the Bush family or Clintons and I think you could re-state your last sentence.  Romney isn't shirking, he's doing what is perfectly legal under the tax code.  If you don't like it, lobby for a different tax collection method which doesn't require 6000 pages and doesn't give special treatment to one person over another.  That's what true fairness is in the first place isn't it?

Nathan- Apple is a global company.  Why should they pay tax on operations which don't involve U.S. customers or parts of the company which don't operate or generate revenue within the U.S., especially if they are under other taxing authorities?  Drop the corporate income tax rate and I would assume places like Ireland would become less attractive havens.

It's funny, when I bring up the issue of Warren Buffet using every single crack in the tax code to his benefit, it's shirked off as his duty to share-holders to do so.  When it's a GOP supporter or candidate, he's a tax cheat.

You guys practice some serious hypocrisy.

[RecycleMichael]

There is a difference from a rich guy and his taxes and a rich guy running for president and his taxes.

You get that, right?

[Conan71]

There is a difference from a rich guy and his taxes and a rich guy running for president and his taxes.

You get that, right?

Yeah I get it.  It's called weak tea, RM.  Either that or the local DNC is telling you to keep throwing smile against the wall to take the focus off the lousy job Obama has done the last 3.5 years.

And to answer your question, there is no difference.  Romney is a citizen of the U.S.  He's subject to the same tax codes that George Kaiser and Warren Buffet are party to.  It matters not that he's running for office.  He's not an out and out tax cheat like our secretary of the Treasury Timothy Geithner.

Why was this not an issue with either of the Bushes?  You guys don't think they didn't have offshore assets or low rates on cap gains?  If it's such an issue, why not hang Obama for not raising the cap gains rate and making people like Romney pay more taxes?  He had as close a mandate as he could have in Congress for two years.  Everyone still blames Bush for his tax cuts, but no one wants to assign any responsibility for Obama continuing those cuts.

[Red Arrow]

There is a difference from a rich guy and his taxes and a rich guy running for president and his taxes.

You get that, right?

Yep, I get it.  Romney is a rich Republican.  He needs to pay his fair share as determined by Democratic Party dogma, not the laws of the land.

Does anyone remember John Kerry (Heinz Ketchup) or was that Algore?  They all blur together to me.  I seem to remember that most of his income/wealth was in his wife's name.  That must be the Democratic Party's equivalent of an off-shore account.

[RecycleMichael]

That was her money from before they were married.

[Red Arrow]

That was her money from before they were married.

They stopped making money after they got married?

[nathanm]

Nathan- Apple is a global company.  Why should they pay tax on operations which don't involve U.S. customers or parts of the company which don't operate or generate revenue within the U.S., especially if they are under other taxing authorities?  Drop the corporate income tax rate and I would assume places like Ireland would become less attractive havens.

Apple Ireland is something like 5 people and a couple of servers. You really think companies should be allowed to open offices in other countries for accounting purposes and through legal trickery transmute US income into foreign income to escape taxation? We aren't Greece, for crying out loud.

RA, you seem not to understand that the laws of the land have been riddled with loopholes that not only give special dispensation to the (very) rich to help them avoid taxes, but they are riddled with loopholes specifically designed for certain individuals or companies. The corruption is endemic. Why is this OK with you?