Don't Pay, Don't Gripe

[guido911]

I know I have posted several times about 47% of Americans who do not pay any federal income tax. I saw this today and thought: If you don't pay federal income tax, do you have a basis to grumble about those who do not paying enough? Or, should we just make light of their opinions on tax policy.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/08/10/30-types-of-people-who-aren%E2%80%99t-allowed-to-complain/

[nathanm]

Why do you insist on making an arbitrary distinction between income tax and other taxes that are also used as general revenue? Perhaps you should direct your obsession at the gaggle of tax cheats who complain they pay too much tax.

[Ed W]

When 47% of American citizens don't make enough money to owe income taxes, it says much more about poverty, though you try to make it seem they're somehow shirking their obligations.

[Conan71]

This isn't about tax payer's rights is it?  If it is, I'm not interested in hearing about it.

[Red Arrow]

When 47% of American citizens don't make enough money to owe income taxes, it says much more about poverty, though you try to make it seem they're somehow shirking their obligations.

Poverty in the USA is living in the lap of luxury compared to many places.

In a few more years, I expect all you young guys to support me in a manner to which I would like to become accustomed.  I want a paint job on my plane and an updated instrument panel.  You owe it to me because I exist.

[Red Arrow]

Perhaps you should direct your obsession at the gaggle of tax cheats who complain they pay too much tax.

As compared to those who pay no income tax and complain they don't get enough benefits?

[guido911]

Why do you insist on making an arbitrary distinction between income tax and other taxes that are also used as general revenue? Perhaps you should direct your obsession at the gaggle of tax cheats who complain they pay too much tax.

Because I choose to. 47% do not pay the highest collected source of income for our government. Here's a link:

http://www.heritage.org/federalbudget/federal-revenue-sources

Now, you choose to harp on the payroll tax which I acknowledge makes its way into general revenue (Is it supposed to? Who cares). But so does the payroll taxes of those 52% also paying federal income tax. Nevertheless, I thought a discussion about tax policy, and who gets to gripe about paying income tax, would be an interesting discussion. Not another straw man.

[nathanm]

You can draw a false distinction if you want, but it's not conducive to having a constructive conversation. Tax is tax. You can't just discount taxes some people pay because you'd rather call them moochers. You complain and complain, but the fact of the matter is that when total taxation is taken into account, rather than cherry picking the way you do, we already have a flat tax. All income cohorts end up paying a hair over 15%. You can hem and haw and grumble and moan all you want, but that's what the situation is. Continuing to ignore reality in favor of partisan myths is only going to drive us further into the ground.

RA, once again, almost everyone pays at least some tax, even the 400-500 of our finest ultra wealthy folks who pay no income tax in any given year. Usually even the corporations that report billions of dollars in profit on their 10Ks but manage to escape the corporate income tax nearly entirely.

I'll renew my recommendation of "Perfectly Legal" by David Cay Johnston if you actually want to see beyond the BS spewed by both parties on the subject of tax policy. It's available in the library. Our country is being looted by tax cheats, and it's not the folks who get audited most who are doing the looting. Whether or not you agree with current tax law, surely you agree that people should follow it.

Edited to add: I should note that FICA receipts are only slightly smaller than individual income tax receipts. Claiming that people who pay payroll tax are somehow not paying is plain ignorant.

[Red Arrow]

RA, once again, almost everyone pays at least some tax, even the 400-500 of our finest ultra wealthy folks who pay no income tax in any given year. Usually even the corporations that report billions of dollars in profit on their 10Ks but manage to escape the corporate income tax nearly entirely.

Please read what I wrote.  "As compared to those who pay no income tax and complain they don't get enough benefits?"

Where did I say "people who pay no tax".  Did you conveniently ignore the word "income".  I don't really care if you agree with me but please be more careful.

Edited to add: I should note that FICA receipts are only slightly smaller than individual income tax receipts. Claiming that people who pay payroll tax are somehow not paying is plain ignorant.

Not recognizing that the payroll tax is prepayment for a direct benefit to the payer (or his/her dependents) rather than going only to a general fund is just plain ignorant.

[swake]

A large percentage of the people that don't pay taxes are retirees that have paid in plenty over their lives, it's like almost 1/3 of the total of people not paying taxes. They often at paid at much higher rates than are paid today. Do they get a say?

[RecycleMichael]

Don't pay, don't gripe.

Aren't gay, don't gripe either then.

[Red Arrow]

A large percentage of the people that don't pay taxes are retirees that have paid in plenty over their lives, it's like almost 1/3 of the total of people not paying taxes. They often at paid at much higher rates than are paid today. Do they get a say?

My mom has been on the receiving side of Social Security for quite a while.   With that and a modest (in my opinion) retirement that my dad paid for during his working years, she still pays some income tax.  It's not a lot but she still pays something.

Actually, almost everyone over 18 gets a say.  Vote.

[Red Arrow]

Don't pay, don't gripe.

Aren't gay, don't gripe either then.

Are you saying that gay people are the only ones paying income tax?   That might give some gays a reason to stay in the closet.

[Ed W]

Bicyclists don't pay taxes, either.  I know that's true 'cause I read it in the comments section on the Tulsa World site. 

[Red Arrow]

We all seem to have drifted a bit from the original premise of this thread:

If you don't pay federal income tax, do you have a basis to grumble about those who do not paying enough?

I apologize for my contribution to the drift.

Starting over:

If you pay no income tax, I believe you have no right to complain about the amount of income tax others pay.

Everyone pays property tax.  If you rent, it's included in your rent.  It will be somewhat related to the value of the property.

Almost everyone personally pays sales tax.  There are exemptions and sometimes there are rebates or deductions on other taxes for the sale tax you did pay.  Farms and other businesses are sometimes exempted.  (When I shop at Atwoods, they usually ask if I have a farm exemption number.)

Everyone pays fuel/gasoline tax, some of which is supposed to fund roads.  Even if you don't drive, you pay fuel tax included in the transportation cost of the goods you buy.

Most of us pay SS/Payroll tax.  I do care that some of it is going to the general fund and think that should be corrected.  That money should be a federally guaranteed investment in our individual financial security in our old age.  I say investment since sticking it in a shoe box will not allow it to grow and become actuarially sound. Spending it as part of the general fund is not investing.  It's spending.  It is also somewhat like an insurance fund in that if you don't live long enough to use it, it reverts to the fund.  Maybe that should be a separate subject for discussion.

Most of us have automobiles and pay registration "fees".  A good portion of that goes to education in Oklahoma.  If you don't have an automobile, are you paying your fair share of funding education?  If you are rich, should you be required to have a number of automobiles proportional to your income?