Poo In The River

[heironymouspasparagus]

Back to the river.

I went sailing on the Charles River by Boston in the early 80s with my cousin.  She said to try really hard to not fall in the water as I would get a mandatory trip to the hospital if I did.  Is the Arkansas anywhere near that bad?

No where near that bad.  Even when the KRMG raft race was going on (with the flushing they gave it before each race) very few people actually got sick from exposure - and there were always a lot of people who did the whole body immersion thing in the river.  For the last 10 years or so, I have been very pleasantly surprised to hear that the water quality is better, and visually to see a less "ugly" water surface.  (Big chunks of foam, sheen on the water, and the "look" of grunge in the water - NOT to be confused with the plain old brown color from muddy river water.

It appears that Sand Springs has done a very good job of upgrading their sewer system - a work in progress.  Over years, big rains have always overwhelmed the system, releasing untreated sewage into the Arkansas.  (Angus Acres looks to be the remaining point of work that is being talked about.)  Big improvements!

As for Tulsa's contribution to the river - long ago, there were many houses that plumbed their sanitary drains into the storm drain system.  Much of the outflow occurred at 11th, 21st, and 31st.  I know at one time (couple decades ago) there was quite a bit of effort put into finding these entry points in the system, and many of those connections were found and changed.  I would not be surprised if there were still a number in place, but since this is one of those things that will eventually self-correct (when drains at a house fail and must be replaced), it probably is not worth much effort now.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Everything the state knows about Oklahoma water and how it is monitored can be found in this handy 84 page document.

http://www.deq.state.ok.us/wqdnew/305b_303d/2010/2010%20Oklahoma%20Integrated%20Report.pdf

Nice!  I'm gonna save that to read for a cold, snowy night when the wind is howling and the fireplace is crackling and can snuggle up in a comfortable chair and read myself to sleep.

[shadows]

The Arkansas River has been the central sewer for the United States for hundreds of years.  The civil war battle (the only battles fought in the territory) of the Round Mountain was fought on the south side of the river west of the dam.
It is the sewer dumping grounds for several small cities and the overflow basin of many of the large ones including Tulsa.  Not many years ago the health department advised people not to eat the fish taken from the river.  I would think that the water quality was considered in the elimination of the raft races as in our screwed up justice system there could be many grounds for law suits. The storm water systems dump many gallons of contaminated water in the river.

We are misled by these experts sitting at a desk on water quality.  From experience with the old air-conditioning water tower that were more efficient and made air-condition cheaper were abandon because the city waters was  contaminated with minerals that solidified when heated causing the deposit to close of the pipes capacity where acid had to be in constant use in dissolving it.  The hell of it was the acid ate up the pipes too.

Possibility one of the wizards can tell me why a doctor would say "mix that with water but not tap water"?  Have we noticed that bottled drinking water is touted again in the retail market.  Why?       

[AquaMan]

The Arkansas River has been the central sewer for the United States for hundreds of years.  The civil war battle (the only battles fought in the territory) of the Round Mountain was fought on the south side of the river west of the dam.
It is the sewer dumping grounds for several small cities and the overflow basin of many of the large ones including Tulsa.  Not many years ago the health department advised people not to eat the fish taken from the river.  I would think that the water quality was considered in the elimination of the raft races as in our screwed up justice system there could be many grounds for law suits. The storm water systems dump many gallons of contaminated water in the river.

We are misled by these experts sitting at a desk on water quality.  From experience with the old air-conditioning water tower that were more efficient and made air-condition cheaper were abandon because the city waters was  contaminated with minerals that solidified when heated causing the deposit to close of the pipes capacity where acid had to be in constant use in dissolving it.  The hell of it was the acid ate up the pipes too.

Possibility one of the wizards can tell me why a doctor would say "mix that with water but not tap water"?  Have we noticed that bottled drinking water is touted again in the retail market.  Why?       

Congratulations! You have managed to include untruths (I don't think you're lying, just misinformed or plain ignorant of the truth) in every single sentence of your post! Quite a feat and you did it in a language we all understand.

You've forgotten the battle at Chusto Talasah (known as Bird Creek today by historians).

The second paragraph is just trash. Stuff you hear but can never track down as true because...its not. I know for a fact that the demise of the Raft Race had little to do with water quality but a lot to do with potential lawsuits from alcohol abuse and lack of organized rescue operations. Insurance companies frown on that.

The third paragraph is humorous. Minerals are naturally occurring in water whether from wells or runoff into lakes. Water in Norman was so hard with calcium that it was hard to rinse off. Our water comes from a water shed far away from the Arkansas. Its possible that when you were working on those "efficient" water tower cooling systems that the water was pumped from the Arkansas but that would have been pre-1925 and likely salt was the contaminant.

The last paragraph is silly. Doctors don't know the quality of the piping into your home, its age, the time the water has sat in the pipes and the nature of the minerals it holds. Neither will they vouch for the bottled varieties which usually come from city systems anyway. The "retail market" must love that these ideas persist. Are you on retainer for them?

[heironymouspasparagus]

The second paragraph is just trash. Stuff you hear but can never track down as true because...its not. I know for a fact that the demise of the Raft Race had little to do with water quality but a lot to do with potential lawsuits from alcohol abuse and lack of organized rescue operations. Insurance companies frown on that.

The third paragraph is humorous. Minerals are naturally occurring in water whether from wells or runoff into lakes. Water in Norman was so hard with calcium that it was hard to rinse off. Our water comes from a water shed far away from the Arkansas. Its possible that when you were working on those "efficient" water tower cooling systems that the water was pumped from the Arkansas but that would have been pre-1925 and likely salt was the contaminant.

The last paragraph is silly. Doctors don't know the quality of the piping into your home, its age, the time the water has sat in the pipes and the nature of the minerals it holds. Neither will they vouch for the bottled varieties which usually come from city systems anyway. The "retail market" must love that these ideas persist. Are you on retainer for them?

Norman pumps it out of the ground.  Not sure what other minerals are in it, but it tastes ok straight from the tap.  Better than bottled water.  Moore and OKC have good water, too.  In fact, it is getting difficult to find bad tasting water in this state.  Couple of the towns out in the panhandle used to be kind of funky, but that was a long time ago - not sure about now.

Water pipes in the house used to be galvanized steel.  Not bad, but guaranteed to corrode, no matter what kind of city water was pumped through them.  Distilled might make them last longer, but that is pretty expensive.  Copper and plastic used now won't corrode much.  But then ya got leaching from the PVC.  Not sure I like that, but it ain't gonna change.

Bottled water is a sucker bet, unless the town just has horrible water  (like if it burns from methane?).  Beyond that, Tulsa and all the surrounding areas have excellent water and it is stupid to use anything else - even in an athletic venue, bring a bottle full of tap water.  Good stuff!  But hey, that's what marketing is all about - selling useless, wasteful stuff to people who don't know any better.

[Red Arrow]

But hey, that's what marketing is all about - selling useless, wasteful stuff to people who don't know any better.

This is the country that bought Pet Rocks.  Bottled water is a gimme for marketeers.

[Conan71]

Congratulations! You have managed to include untruths (I don't think you're lying, just misinformed or plain ignorant of the truth) in every single sentence of your post! Quite a feat and you did it in a language we all understand.

You've forgotten the battle at Chusto Talasah (known as Bird Creek today by historians).

The second paragraph is just trash. Stuff you hear but can never track down as true because...its not. I know for a fact that the demise of the Raft Race had little to do with water quality but a lot to do with potential lawsuits from alcohol abuse and lack of organized rescue operations. Insurance companies frown on that.

The third paragraph is humorous. Minerals are naturally occurring in water whether from wells or runoff into lakes. Water in Norman was so hard with calcium that it was hard to rinse off. Our water comes from a water shed far away from the Arkansas. Its possible that when you were working on those "efficient" water tower cooling systems that the water was pumped from the Arkansas but that would have been pre-1925 and likely salt was the contaminant.

The last paragraph is silly. Doctors don't know the quality of the piping into your home, its age, the time the water has sat in the pipes and the nature of the minerals it holds. Neither will they vouch for the bottled varieties which usually come from city systems anyway. The "retail market" must love that these ideas persist. Are you on retainer for them?

The evaporative cooling towers he speaks of are still very much in use, the deposits are calcium and magnesium scale, naturally-occuring minerals which will fall out of solution when they are subjected to heat and a higher pH.  I made a very good living keeping those deposits from sticking on all sorts of heat exchangers.

[Red Arrow]

I made a very good living keeping those deposits from sticking on all sorts of heat exchangers.

Big scrub brush with a really long handle?

[Conan71]

Big scrub brush with a really long handle?

Only when the chemical program went to smile.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Only when the chemical program went to smile.

Better make it a wire brush made out of a sandblaster!

[shadows]

 I guess I am a newcomer in all this as much of my time was spent as a fixit man. Now the Japs have converted everything where we don’t make any thing and what they make for us cannot be fixed.

Remember the days when all drainage pipes had to be of lead until some one printed a white page on the lead poison.  We are facing a problem as plastics in the aging process may give off a new line of poison.  Copper has a tendency to turn green with corrosion as it ages     

My history books on the civil war define the Battle of Round Mountain as the only battle in what is now Oklahoma.

The raft race I am sure required a pile of insurance and as more facts about our environment, as well a law suits that are being filed, would lead to the possibility that the increasing insurance as well as the long term effects caused by the contamination of the water would make the decision.

During the transition of swamp coolers to chilled air I installed the first experiment unit John Zink made in the house where a fellow named Woodhead was sent here from Cal to operate Douglas.  The water tower was installed in the basement and I gave up trying to keep the coolant flowing by the constant use of acid.

One of the pop bottling companies had a 2 inch water line running full blast rewashing the bottles before entering the soaker.  I designed and installed a reclaiming system to where it captured the water and reused it to wash the cig buts out of the bottles.  Received a call 48 hours later and was told the pump had quit.  On examination I found that the 2 inch water line was closed off with solid scale.

All that day old boloney about the false claims on bottled water should be reported as false advertisement.

The doctors of today are specialist in one field like some of the posters on this form who pursue a single line of thought and it is easy to define the smell of poo in air as well as in the river.  In the archives one will fine that the out of state water we are importing lacked only one point as being unsafe to drink, in a government test. 



 

[heironymouspasparagus]

Not sure how to reply to all that...so, will just leave it alone, I guess.

[Conan71]

Shadows, get with the times.

The Chinese have now stolen all the Japanese jobs, well except for the jobs American workers stole building Japanese cars here in the states.

[patric]

My history books on the civil war define the Battle of Round Mountain as the only battle in what is now Oklahoma.

Nah, there were several battles,

Here's Chusto-Talasah (Tulsa):  http://www.nps.gov/hps/abpp/battles/ok002.htm

That's about 86th Street North and Delaware.

[Townsend]

My history books on the civil war define the Battle of Round Mountain as the only battle in what is now Oklahoma.

Which books are you referencing?