Poo In The River

[Red Arrow]

If I were you, I wouldn't be drinking water from anywhere.

That's why beer was invented.

[PonderInc]

I presume the lung cancer rate would be higher directly north and south of the refineries where the prevailing seasonal winds blow. The question is whether anyone is doing any statistical research to prove that.

edit: the corollary question would be, "does it matter?" It would be nice for the surrounding homeowners to be able to make an informed decision as to whether they should move or not.

This is something I've wondered about for years, especially since I lived by the river/refineries for 13 years.  It definitely mattered which way the wind blew.  The smell is often worst in the middle of the night.  Someone once told me that the law regulates "visible plumes" coming from smoke stacks, so that makes you wonder what goes on under cover of night.

I would love to get some volunteers who live near the river to use the "Bucket Brigade" air sampling system. http://www.bucketbrigade.net/ This is an affordable means of air testing that was designed so that communities could get answers to "what's that smell?" and "is it dangerous?"  The idea being that industry may not be exactly forthcoming with the information.

The sampling systems test for VOCs, sulfur compounds, particulates, heavy metals, etc.

[shadows]

You need to do better research on history and while you're at it perk up those reading and comprehension skills! I never said because of slavery. Slaves were capital assets for the Southern farmers. Like most wars, the reasons are complex and mostly economic related.

Oh, yeah. Follow the directions that the sign gives. I've read that sign. Good luck.

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The South Confederacy by no means was a renegade bunch of persons.  They had an existing government equal to that of the North.  They coined and printed their own money.  They lived a life style unparallel before or after the war. Lincoln married a southern bell. Two years after the war began and was floundering Lincoln introduced slavery as cause after the Gettysburg address in 1863.
The North freed the South's slaves, gave them guns, and promoted the destruction of the South.

Ok; have read the sign and followed it's instructions.

[Hoss]

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The South Confederacy by no means was a renegade bunch of persons.  They had an existing government equal to that of the North.  They coined and printed their own money.  They lived a life style unparallel before or after the war. Lincoln married a southern bell. Two years after the war began and was floundering Lincoln introduced slavery as cause after the Gettysburg address in 1863.
The North freed the South's slaves, gave them guns, and promoted the destruction of the South.

Ok; have read the sign and followed it's instructions.

OK, you've just proven your education didn't go past the third grade.  Or at the very least basic American history.

[AquaMan]

I am impressed with how Shadows can put so much wrong into so few sentences. His fictional account of the Civil War, if widely believed, explains a lot of lunacy in the current South.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I am impressed with how Shadows can put so much wrong into so few sentences. His fictional account of the Civil War, if widely believed, explains a lot of lunacy in the current South.

It must be parsed and looked at point by point... Mary Todd was a "southern belle" from Kentucky - but that was a slave state that stayed in the Union.  The south did have a government and coin/print money.  Gettysburg Address was delivered after the north's first real victory - they had been getting whipped for two years.  North freed southern slaves, but NOT northern slaves - that didn't happen for four years AFTER the war - letting the north keep their slaves, but putting another economic pressure on the south.  Always made me wonder why Abe didn't do the right thing and declare emancipation for northern slaves, too??  He did a good thing, only it was just part of the job.

Guns were sent.  Destruction of the south was promoted.  Most people in the south did NOT own slaves, but were roused by the propaganda of southern leaders about how the north was "telling them what to do", and the economic pressure the north exerted on the south - which was real - send raw materials north cheap to be processed, and we will send finished goods back south expensive.  There was also a lot of northern economic pressure to keep manufacturing from moving south.

Biggest thing in the post is that issue of slavery was one of the causes of the war, but states rights was at least as big - probably bigger - an issue.  Kind of sounds like what we are hearing today from Texas....

[AquaMan]

Thank you. It was indeed a complex array of issues and policies. The president did not act in a vacuum however. The Congress and federal government had been wrestling with the issue of extending slavery into new states and limiting it in existing states for years before the war. It wasn't like they suddenly decided at Gettysburg that it was an issue.

The economic exploitation of the South and states rights issues imo were at least as strong as slavery as primary determinants of the war. But there is no denying that the efforts to stop expansion of slavery outside the south and to begin limiting its use through Federal efforts in all the states was perceived by influential slave owners as an infringement of their business rights. They saw their nearly free labor source being compromised.

I'm curious also as to when the South formed its own government and minted its own currency. I doubt it was much before the war was seen as inevitable. Shadows acts like it was similar to Native American governments that exist within the Federal framework. I am dubious of that. It was likely in preparation for war.

[Townsend]

I'm curious also as to when the South formed its own government and minted its own currency. I doubt it was much before the war was seen as inevitable. Shadows acts like it was similar to Native American governments that exist within the Federal framework. I am dubious of that. It was likely in preparation for war.

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h242.html

In February 1861, representatives from the seven seceded states met in Montgomery, Alabama to found the Confederate States of America. They hoped for a peaceful separation from the North. They did not consider their secession to have been illegal, and they favored a constitution without radical innovations. The new constitution was remarkably similar to the U.S. Constitution, often a word-for-word duplication. Notable changes included:

A single-term executive with a 6-year term
A presidential item veto
A role for cabinet officials in congressional debates
A prohibition of protective tariffs and federal funding for internal improvements.
The unicameral legislature with active participation by cabinet members blends some aspects of the British House of Commons with the U.S. Congress. It's interesting to note that the international trade in slaves was prohibited, although naturally the right to own slaves within the Confederacy was maintained.

Various candidates for the position of president of the Confederacy emerged. William Yancey of Alabama was well qualified but the border states regarded him as too radical. Robert Toombs of Georgia was held back by his tendency towards intemperate speech. The ultimate choice was Jefferson Davis of Mississippi, a politician, planter, and war hero.

For vice-president, the Confederate Congress picked Senator Alexander Stephens of Georgia. This was not a fortunate choice, as Stephens wanted to be president and, failing that, spent the war years looking for a way out of it.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Thank you. It was indeed a complex array of issues and policies. The president did not act in a vacuum however. The Congress and federal government had been wrestling with the issue of extending slavery into new states and limiting it in existing states for years before the war. It wasn't like they suddenly decided at Gettysburg that it was an issue.

The economic exploitation of the South and states rights issues imo were at least as strong as slavery as primary determinants of the war. But there is no denying that the efforts to stop expansion of slavery outside the south and to begin limiting its use through Federal efforts in all the states was perceived by influential slave owners as an infringement of their business rights. They saw their nearly free labor source being compromised.

I'm curious also as to when the South formed its own government and minted its own currency. I doubt it was much before the war was seen as inevitable. Shadows acts like it was similar to Native American governments that exist within the Federal framework. I am dubious of that. It was likely in preparation for war.

Correction to what I said earlier - 13th Amendment was 1865.  Only about three years after declared illegal in the south (Jan 1863 to Dec 1865).  Still not sure why it took even that long....

The abomination had been debated for decades, and fought over at one level or another for much of that time.  No doubt a very strong motivator for war.

I have read discussions in the past that said that slavery was becoming uneconomic, even in the rural south, by the time the Civil War occurred.  Not sure about that, but it certainly seems like the industrial north had discovered that the freeman put into a job that approximated the working conditions, without the other living conditions required of slavery, ended up giving them a "captive audience" without the added expense of housing/food/clothing, etc.  And the moneys paid most likely in the overall scheme of things ended up being cheaper than the infrastructure needed to support that "Peculiar Institution".

I can certainly see how the advent of newer, more productive farm implements like developed in the early to mid 20th would have no doubt had a major effect - a couple of people needed to do what used to take 50 or 100.  One way or the other, slavery was likely to be gone, either way it was just WAY too late!!

[shadows]

Townsend: Even though the articles on nearly any subject can be found on the internet reflecting one person's opinion, it still is an enormous asset to the generations that will come after us.  The war liken many subjects, was fought between brothers.  The march of General Sherman across the South, burning and destroying the southern plantations as well as a way of life that has never been duplicated.  We are resorting to another act of slavery only this time we call it taxation which destroys nations.

Since the internet gained such popularity we seem to rely on it and let the text books gather dust. We have relied on our memory of text books only to find it is like many things is subject to aging.   The text book will become obsolete as well as the schools which will succumb as the electronic marvels replace the fragile human memory. 

   
 

[Townsend]

 The text book will become obsolete  

Agreed.  Just taking a damned sight longer than it should.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Agreed.  Just taking a damned sight longer than it should.

Books will only be gone after I'm gone - 'cause I ain't giving them up!

To paraphrase; I'll give up my books when you pry them from my cold dead hands.

Love an e-Reader for travel, but nothing comes close to an actual paper book for reading enjoyment.

[Townsend]

Books will only be gone after I'm gone - 'cause I ain't giving them up!

To paraphrase; I'll give up my books when you pry them from my cold dead hands.

Love an e-Reader for travel, but nothing comes close to an actual paper book for reading enjoyment.

Text books.  They should all be available on a reader. 

Kids should not have to carry half their weight from class to class and college students shouldn't have to pay hundreds or thousands for books every semester.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Text books.  They should all be available on a reader. 

Kids should not have to carry half their weight from class to class and college students shouldn't have to pay hundreds or thousands for books every semester.

Texts on readers are great for going to class, but I still want the paper for home and future reference.

Too difficult to make notes on the screen of the reader...

And when are they gonna offer a 'bundle' for books?  Buy the paper and get the digital for small extra.  Or included - even better!

[Townsend]

Too difficult to make notes on the screen of the reader...

You know you can...you know what?  You're right.  Books are great for some folks.