BOK Center 2012

[sgrizzle]

Presumably, you have done that search.  Any chance you could throw us some links, sources, or at least examples?

Here are a couple I was able to find:  The Qwest generates about $3.5 million a year in operating profit -

Read more: http://journalstar.com/article_eef1763a-5015-11df-a2eb-001cc4c03286.html#ixzz1wEP7rnY2

As a result of Sprint Center's great success in FY09-10, we have exceeded our financial projections allowing AEG to deliver $2.1 million, representing an increase of 16% from last year's payment, to the City of Kansas City, Mo., through a profit-sharing provision in the management agreement,

Read more: http://www.kshb.com/dpp/news/local_news/sprint-center-celebrates-third-anniversary-by-earning-the-spot-as-america's-second-busiest-arena-#ixzz1wEUvHNAt

1. The Qwest Center is an Arena AND Convention Center AND Hotel AND also doubles as Creighton's arena. You're comparing Apples and Orchards.
2. The Sprint Number is a gross-profit sharing number and is not directly tied to net profits.

[Teatownclown]

Not to mention, what location anywhere is generally "hopping" on a Saturday morning?

Monteraux .... Inverness... Saint Simeons... TJCC

[sgrizzle]

Monteraux .... Inverness... Saint Simeons... TJCC

Ahh, the smell of lysol and oatmeal.

[JCnOwasso]

1. The Qwest Center is an Arena AND Convention Center AND Hotel AND also doubles as Creighton's arena. You're comparing Apples and Orchards.
2. The Sprint Number is a gross-profit sharing number and is not directly tied to net profits.

Come on, how do you expect an arguement if you try to compare apples to apples.

The Qwest center also receives revenue from parking and received a 2mil subsidy from Omaha (not sure if that was included in the profit calculations)

taking a look at the BOK numbers, they are running a 24-25% profit margin... that is pretty dang good.  I would take that all day long and twice on tuesday.

[Teatownclown]

taking a look at the BOK numbers, they are running a 24-25% profit margin... that is pretty dang good.  I would take that all day long and twice on tuesday.

That's great. Could you show how you arrived on that with a net of 1.2 million. Thanks in advance.

[Jeff P]

That's great. Could you show how you arrived on that with a net of 1.2 million. Thanks in advance.

I'm guessing from the reported income of ~$5.4MM and expenses of ~$4.3MM reported in the article.

That would be a 25% profit margin.

[Oil Capital]

1. The Qwest Center is an Arena AND Convention Center AND Hotel AND also doubles as Creighton's arena. You're comparing Apples and Orchards.
2. The Sprint Number is a gross-profit sharing number and is not directly tied to net profits.

I realize neither is necessarily a complete line-for-line identical comparison.  I doubt one can find such a thing.  Nevertheless, they are what I could find and they indicate operating profits for both arenas.

The linked article re: qwest   Tells us that the annual city subsidy has  ceased.

The sprint center delivers profits to the City of KC that are more of a net profit than the profit Beijing reported for the BOK.  It is my understnanding that AEG and the city divide the profit after allocating amounts to items such as returning construction costs. 

[Teatownclown]

THERE'S NO DEBT SERVICE. IF THERE WERE, THE BOK WOULD BE RUNNING A DEFICIT! DUH!

[DTowner]

Here we go again – the quarterly debate about whether the BOK Center is really "profitable."

Of course it is not "profitable" if it had to service and pay off the debt incurred to build it.  No one ever said it would and those opposed to it during the vote never made that argument.  Just like school buildings, libraries, parks, roads. golf courses, and other public facilities are not profitable in that they do not generate sufficient revenue to pay for construction or maintenance costs.  The hard core naysayer's simply cannot admit they were wrong and the BOK is a success.

The BOK Center has turned an operating profit ever year its been open, has spurred development and private investment all over downtown, has brought top billing concerts and events back to Tulsa, has improved the quality of life in Tulsa, and is a major source of civic pride.  Repeating the same tired argument is not curiosity, but is a stubborn refusal to admit the obvious.

[Jeff P]

Here we go again – the quarterly debate about whether the BOK Center is really "profitable."

Of course it is not "profitable" if it had to service and pay off the debt incurred to build it.  No one ever said it would and those opposed to it during the vote never made that argument.  Just like school buildings, libraries, parks, roads. golf courses, and other public facilities are not profitable in that they do not generate sufficient revenue to pay for construction or maintenance costs.  The hard core naysayer's simply cannot admit they were wrong and the BOK is a success.

The BOK Center has turned an operating profit ever year its been open, has spurred development and private investment all over downtown, has brought top billing concerts and events back to Tulsa, has improved the quality of life in Tulsa, and is a major source of civic pride.  Repeating the same tired argument is not curiosity, but is a stubborn refusal to admit the obvious.

This.

[Townsend]

Here we go again – the quarterly debate about whether the BOK Center is really "profitable."

Of course it is not "profitable" if it had to service and pay off the debt incurred to build it.  No one ever said it would and those opposed to it during the vote never made that argument.  Just like school buildings, libraries, parks, roads. golf courses, and other public facilities are not profitable in that they do not generate sufficient revenue to pay for construction or maintenance costs.  The hard core naysayer's simply cannot admit they were wrong and the BOK is a success.

The BOK Center has turned an operating profit ever year its been open, has spurred development and private investment all over downtown, has brought top billing concerts and events back to Tulsa, has improved the quality of life in Tulsa, and is a major source of civic pride.  Repeating the same tired argument is not curiosity, but is a stubborn refusal to admit the obvious.

Someone will demand its birth certificate soon.

[RecycleMichael]

Someone will demand its birth certificate soon.

BOK is short for Barack Obama Kenya

[Townsend]

BOK is short for Barack Obama Kenya

Someone contact our state government.  We must spend our educational funding to take the Barack Obama Kenya apart and ship it back from whence it came.

[Conan71]

Thread ender:

BOK=WIN

[Oil Capital]

Here we go again – the quarterly debate about whether the BOK Center is really "profitable."

Of course it is not "profitable" if it had to service and pay off the debt incurred to build it.  No one ever said it would and those opposed to it during the vote never made that argument.  Just like school buildings, libraries, parks, roads. golf courses, and other public facilities are not profitable in that they do not generate sufficient revenue to pay for construction or maintenance costs.  The hard core naysayer's simply cannot admit they were wrong and the BOK is a success.

The BOK Center has turned an operating profit ever year its been open, has spurred development and private investment all over downtown, has brought top billing concerts and events back to Tulsa, has improved the quality of life in Tulsa, and is a major source of civic pride.  Repeating the same tired argument is not curiosity, but is a stubborn refusal to admit the obvious.

Not sure who you are referring to.  I certainly am not arguing over whether the BOK is profitable and I don't see anyone else doing so either.  The BOK is certainly operationally profitable. There is no question about that.  

What is silly is the fear of examining how the BOK compares to other arenas displayed by so many on this board.  I supported the construction of the arena and continue to support it and believe it is a great benefit to the city of  Tulsa (even though I think they failed in the site choice).  But some of the claims made on its behalf go a bit far and it does no one any harm to have a realistic discussion of its performance and an honest comparison to other arenas.  

I still look forward to Hoss sharing his information regarding most publicly supported arenas around the country operating break-even or at a loss.