BOK Center 2012

[erfalf]

Just out of curiosity (this is by no means a bash on the BOK Center), what exactly are we talking about when we say they have an operating profit? Whose profit? What are the expenses?

On that note, what revenues does the city recognize from the arena outside of sales taxes? Do they have a lease with the operator, or is it rent per event type of thing? Are there any other fees they collect.

[Hoss]

LOL. Do we really need John Bolton to tell us that operating in the black is a good thing?  And of curse he did not say that it is not the norm for arenas to operate in the black.

The BOK is successful.  It's obviously a good thing that it shows an operating profit.  Credibility is lost when more is attempted to be claimed than is realistic.  And so far we have seen zero evidence to support the claim that most arenas do not have operating profits.

Then you can keep your opinion and I'll keep mine.  I however will defer to the judgement of someone in the industry, as I have said.  Shouldn't diminish the accomplish either way.  If it's making a profit, then why is it such a newsmaker then?  Ask yourself that.

[erfalf]

Then you can keep your opinion and I'll keep mine.  I however will defer to the judgement of someone in the industry, as I have said.  Shouldn't diminish the accomplish either way.  If it's making a profit, then why is it such a newsmaker then?  Ask yourself that.

Because when taxes sunset, the city needs you to understand that they know what they are talking about and make good decisions. They need to keep reminding you, just so you don't forget.

[Hoss]

Because when taxes sunset, the city needs you to understand that they know what they are talking about and make good decisions. They need to keep reminding you, just so you don't forget.

But John Bolton doesn't work for the city.  He works for SMG.

[erfalf]

But John Bolton doesn't work for the city.  He works for SMG.

Repeat customer.

[Hoss]

Repeat customer.

OK, you and Shadows been hanging out?

[Oil Capital]

Then you can keep your opinion and I'll keep mine.  I however will defer to the judgement of someone in the industry, as I have said.  Shouldn't diminish the accomplish either way.  If it's making a profit, then why is it such a newsmaker then?  Ask yourself that.

You are too funny.   You are deferring to the judgment of someone in the industry who has made no statement one way or the other regarding other arenas and their operating profits.  IF he makes a "judgment" on the topic and shares it with us, then it might make some sense to defer to his judgment.  In the meantime, you just look silly.  (Further, he is hardly an impartial observer.)

The BOK center management issuing a press release touting their own performance and the Tulsa Whirled dutifully printing same is hardly noteworthy or meaningful.

[Hoss]

You are too funny.  You are deferring to the judgment of someone in the industry who has made no statement one way or the other regarding other arenas and their operating profits.  IF he makes a "judgment" and shares it with us, then it might make some sense to defer to his judgment.  In the meantime, you just look silly.

The BOK center management issuing a press release touting their own performance and the Tulsa Whirled dutifully printing same is hardly noteworthy or meaningful.

"It's frankly a very strong number," said BOK Center Finance Director Tom Simpson. "Really, anything on the positive side is a good number for an arena."

OK, so I misquoted WHO it was.  He does report to Bolton, however.  I fail to see how that makes me look silly.  On the contrary...

We can go on and on with this..bottom line is, the arena is making money when their staff indicates that anything on the positive side is a good number.  You can infer from that what YOU will..I infer that it means that it's not uncommon for arenas to operate flat or at a loss.

[Oil Capital]

OK, so I misquoted WHO it was.  He does report to Bolton, however.  I fail to see how that makes me look silly.  On the contrary...

We can go on and on with this..bottom line is, the arena is making money when their staff indicates that anything on the positive side is a good number.  You can infer from that what YOU will..I infer that it means that it's not uncommon for arenas to operate flat or at a loss.

It makes you look silly because he is anything but a disinterested observer.

I have no doubt you will continue to infer whatever suits your theme of the day, despite the lack of any supporting evidence and the presence of contrary evidence.

(And by the way, I am inferring nothing from the statements of the BOK management.)

[Conan71]

Can you two stop already? 

Profit, it's not falling down already from neglect, we get great shows, it generates sales tax revenue as a tourist destination when others travel here who might not otherwise be spending their dough in Tulsa.  That's a net positive any way you spin it.

[DTowner]

Perhaps this will help give a little background about some troubled arenas.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/17/sports/a-companys-small-town-arenas-leave-cities-with-big-problems.html?_r=1

[Conan71]

Perhaps this will help give a little background about some troubled arenas.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/17/sports/a-companys-small-town-arenas-leave-cities-with-big-problems.html?_r=1

Sounds like those cities got slicked.

[Hoss]

Sounds like those cities got slicked.

Global is huge in the CHL.  They have a terrible reputation for this unfortunately.  Almost all of the current teams in the league (Tulsa, Wichita, and the former IHL2 teams excluded) used GEC to help their home community get an arena off the ground.

In Rio Rancho's case, they were the relocation for a team who had a good location in the Albuquerque Fairgrounds area.  Tingley Colisuem was an interesting building, but had character.  The location they chose for the new building at the time was out in the middle of nowhere and they were using it to try and attract other business.  Unfortunately, it was put out in an area where there was little infrastructure during a recession.

Hell, GEC even built a building in, of all places, Dodge City KS.

[Oil Capital]

Perhaps this will help give a little background about some troubled arenas.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/17/sports/a-companys-small-town-arenas-leave-cities-with-big-problems.html?_r=1

Thank you for the effort to actually post comparative facts.  Interesting article.  It doesn't really discuss operating costs.  It's a little hard to tell if any of those arenas even cover their operating costs.  In any event, they are quite different circumstances from Tulsa and the BOK.  Conan is right.  It sounds like those cities got slicked.  I'm thinking they deferred a bit too much to "someone in the industry".  ;-)

[nathanm]

It sounds like those cities got slicked.

It happens every day. Usually the recipient of millions of dollars in subsidies is a private company, not a publicly owned arena. On that basis, I'd say the BOk Center is a bargain whatever the cost, since we're giving money to ourselves. (I'd still like to know what the flow of funds looks like, though)