Executive Privilege

[Teatownclown]

I think I recall stories of the gun running being traced back to the Bush administration, and that this administration's justice department was the one that uncovered it. Is this accurate or am I miss-remembering?

If it is accurate, why the need to cover up documents that the JD claims implicate the Bush administration? Everybody loves bashing Bush anyways, so why not just pile on.

The President has cloaked the documents with Executive privilege and a Democratic member of the committee said, during the discussion and
replayed on NPR this AM, that Holder was forbidden by law to release the documents. Since this was an undercover investigation, that may be
true. Issa may have bitten off more than he can chew.

[guido911]

I would encourage those interested in this question to take about fifteen minutes and read U.S. v. Nixon. There is a very educational and enlightening discussion on the import of separation of powers and the risks of intrusion, particularly in Section IV.

http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/418/683/case.html

[Gaspar]

Uh, then why the War On Drugs? You conservatives don't mind pithing away money if it's your doings.

I think you're on the wrong thread.

. . .and, I don't believe it's the government's job to regulate recreational substances either.  In a sense the war on drugs is what created the need for the guns supplied by the Justice Department and bought by the cartels.

Anyone here for the war on drugs?  Can I see some hands?  Nope?  Ok, lets move on.

[guido911]

You guys are not reading what I'm saying evidently.  I'm NOT defending anyone here.  I'm simply asking why Gas has the outrage now but didn't have it back then.

It's that simple people.  You're twisting my intent.  But, that's not surprising.

I think you were given the rope and erfalf sort of led you to the gallows. Suggesting that it is US who were not getting your point is kinda sad.

[guido911]

Brian Terry's family none to pleased:

Terry family attorney Pat McGroder on Wednesday released the following statement from Terry's parents Josephine Terry and Kent Terry Sr.: "Attorney General Eric Holder's refusal to fully disclose the documents associated with Operation Fast and Furious and President Obama's assertion of executive privilege serves to compound this tragedy. It denies the Terry family and the American people the truth."

The Terrys said that their son "was killed by members of a Mexican drug cartel armed with weapons from this failed Justice Department gun trafficking investigation. For more than 18 months we have been asking our federal government for justice and accountability. The documents sought by the House Oversight Committee and associated with Operation Fast and Furious should be produced and turned over to the committee. Our son lost his life protecting this nation, and it is very disappointing that we are now faced with an administration that seems more concerned with protecting themselves rather than revealing the truth behind Operation Fast and Furious."

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/06/murdered-border-agents-family-says-president-obama-compounding-this-tragedy-with-executive-privilege-assertion/

[Hoss]

I think you were given the rope and erfalf sort of led you to the gallows. Suggesting that it is US who were not getting your point is kinda sad.

Merely pointing out I was not defending either administration; just trying to get Scott to explain the lack of 2007 outrage.  But I don't expect you to pick up on that.

[Conan71]

Uh, then why the War On Drugs? You conservatives don't mind pithing away money if it's your doings.

I don't think there's anyone on here who approves of the war on drugs.  Try another ad hom instead.

[Hoss]

I don't think there's anyone on here who approves of the war on drugs.  Try another ad hom instead.

I know of one, but can't remember which poster it is..wasn't it Nate?  If not, sorry to Nate.  I know someone on here is a huge proponent of the WOD.

[heironymouspasparagus]

No one is in favor - everyone is against (WOD).  So why do we keep doing the insane??  (Full circle, again.)

[Conan71]

No one is in favor - everyone is against (WOD).  So why do we keep doing the insane??  (Full circle, again.)

Really.  You'd think our ex-stoner president would have abolished it already.

[Vashta Nerada]

I would encourage those interested in this question to take about fifteen minutes and read U.S. v. Nixon. There is a very educational and enlightening discussion on the import of separation of powers and the risks of intrusion, particularly in Section IV.

Every president since Nixon has gone down the Executive Privilege road -- Bush W was a frequent flier -- so the point?

[Teatownclown]

 Try another ad hom instead.

What? So, you don't get the link between F and F and WOD?

ALSO, Bill Clinton was an ex stoner President and last I saw his approval ratings were higher than any single Repiglicant. And the current ex stoner President? This ex stoner, who is more popular than any Teahadist/GOPeer, President would be breaking the law to turn over these Fast and Furious docs to Issass.

Such stupid game playing by the Teabagger/GOPeer's.

[Red Arrow]

That's what I thought.  A pattern emerges.

Yep, you making a big deal out of nothing.

[Ed W]

The President has cloaked the documents with Executive privilege and a Democratic member of the committee said, during the discussion and
replayed on NPR this AM, that Holder was forbidden by law to release the documents. Since this was an undercover investigation, that may be
true. Issa may have bitten off more than he can chew.

This was on TPM back on June 6 (excerpts):

House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa seemed to take offense on Thursday to the suggestion that his committee asked the Justice Department for access to wiretap applications under court seal during his investigation into the botched ATF operation known as Fast and Furious.

...While the original subpoena did not mention them, Issa has on several occasions requested the Justice Department's assistance in obtaining wiretap applications, even though the disclosure of such document would be in violation of federal law.

...In a letter earlier this week, Issa also stated that he and Sen. Chuck Grassley wrote the Justice Department back in February "requesting the Department's assistance in obtaining the wiretap applications from Operation Fast and Furious."

...Holder noted during his testimony on Thursday that there was a criminal provision with a five-year penalty for disclosing sealed wiretap applications, but said there were very practical reasons for not disclosing the material as well.

"There are concerns that one would have about people who are involved in these matters. You might put victims' safety at risk. You might put at risk the success of a prosecution. Those are all the reasons why there are very tight restrictions on the provision of material connected to wiretaps," Holder said.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/fast_and_furious_issa_says_he_never_requested_sealed_wiretaps.php

West Virginia's late Senator Robert Byrd kept a pocket sized copy of the US Constitution with him, and wasn't afraid to give the President of either party a quick civics lesson when necessary.  He liked to point out that we have three separate branches of government and that none of them are subordinate to the others.  Senator Byrd answered to the US Senate, not the President.  

So what may appear to be a political fight has overtones with constitutional implications.  If AG Holder revealed the contents of a sealed document to the senator, he'd be violating both the law and a court order.  If he didn't reveal the contents, he'd be in contempt of congress.  If you were the AG, which is better: pissing off a US senator or pissing off a federal judge?

One last thing, and it's a hypothetical about Fast and Furious.  If one of our agents hadn't died and the operation lead to the destruction of some of the drug cartels, would conservatives vilify the ATF and the AG or would they be singing the praises of a successful enforcement action against some of the worst criminals in the western hemisphere?  

[Hoss]

Yep, you making a big deal out of nothing.

That's your opinion.  However, it was Gas who started the post...I simply pointed out the outrage disparity.