America is not the greatest country anymore - "The Newsroom"

[heironymouspasparagus]

I am not tired of seeing basic conservative values paraded in opposition to liberal ones.  I do resent the hijacking of conservatism by the religious extremists.  I remember McCarthy, McGovern and others.  Knowing what I know now, I would still vote for Nixon rather than them.  And yes, I know, not everything Nixon did would fly today.  I was most disappointed in the 55 MPH speed limit joke that lasted more than 20 years. LBJ did some good with Civil Rights, which was actually in opposition to some of JFK's and RFK's views, but the Great Society created a generation dependent on government. Not so good. Why did you leave out Kennedy?  Most of my opinions on JFK are based on my father's opinions since I was still somewhat young.  Dad said he had some good ideas but chose the wrong way to get there.  That is frequently my view of many liberal ideas today.  I don't really remember the details.  When Kennedy got shot, the attitude among many of us Jr High kids was "Oh no, now we get Johnson".   I do remember the 1964 Presidential election. Even then, politics divided some of us Jr. High school friends.  Goldwater was painted as a war-monger.  History tells us the story of our involvement in Viet Nam.

I left out JFK, 'cause he wasn't really considered conservative, even though he did have his moments (like Obama has).  

Kennedy bungled some things very badly - Bay of Pigs.  He really didn't get that much done, so it really is tough to say he was good or bad based on very much fact.  He did a great job of dealing with the Russians (Cuban Missile crisis) - very tough stand.  So, if take those two main events, he was a wash.  His legacy is more about the charisma - the "Camelot" crap if one believes in that kind of stuff.  (I don't).  I think if he had more time, good things might have come about, but I also believe we would NOT have gone in deep into that Viet Nam mess like we ended up doing.  That was LBJ - a good old fashioned Southern Democrat - catering in great part to the conservative military industrial complex that followed the philosophy of (paraphrased) - "what's good for Douglas, Boeing, General Dynamics, is good for the US."  A lot like what got us into Iraq....

I was still in elementary when Nixon ran against Kennedy, and there was only one little girl from a Kennedy supporter family.  Very hard for her.  There was an adaptation of a sing-song chant;  Nixon, Nixon, he's our man...throw Kennedy in the garbage can!  No one really knew exactly why either of those things were desirable...

By 1964, I and many friends had figured it out.  It always puzzled me how ANYONE in this country could believe anything Westmoreland said to anybody.  Oh, well, what the heck, those 55,000 were just collateral damage... oh, wait - unless you happened to know one (or more) of them.

[heironymouspasparagus]

What are you going to do about Democratic Party candidates that will lead us to bankruptcy, over dependence on government, and socialism?

I guess the only choice is to re-elect the only real Republican in the race - Obama (as bad as that may be for other reasons).

Otherwise, we will have the policies that put us into getting to brink of bankrupty, dependence on the bailout by big banks, big insurance, and big oil.  And socialism?  When I took MBA econ class, they defined that as a 'demand economy' where the government 'demands' goods and services - using fiscal policy to create economic activity by spending money on goods and services to accomplish it's goals.  That means we have the largest socialist economy in the world - brought to you by the imperialistic voyeurism brought to you by the people who have made war the main tool of economic policy in the last 30 years.  Reagan ran on the fact that he wanted to slap the snot out of Iraq, and we continue in that vein today.  

And yeah, Truman and LBJ were both massively guilty of the same thing, but somehow, that didn't seem to end up with $15 trillion in debt, though.

[Red Arrow]

I left out JFK, 'cause he wasn't really considered conservative, even though he did have his moments (like Obama has).  

I disagree that conservatism was the theme of the 60s.  JFK was not conservative for his time.  Please re-read AquaMan's post: 

I get so tired of seeing conservatism paraded around the air waves, internet and print like its the default philosophy. It was the laughingstock of the country in the sixties and seventies.

Kennedy did cut the marginal tax rates and raise federal tax income though.  I will agree to the concept of diminishing returns at our current levels though.

The biggest thing I remember from the Kennedy-Nixon race was that Kennedy was Catholic.  Much like the noise about Romney being a Mormon.

By 1964, I and many friends had figured it out.  It always puzzled me how ANYONE in this country could believe anything Westmoreland said to anybody.  Oh, well, what the heck, those 55,000 were just collateral damage... oh, wait - unless you happened to know one (or more) of them.

I didn't personally know anyone who didn't make it back from Nam.  I was lucky I guess.  I just knew though that when I got drafted and sent to Nam that I wouldn't make it back.  It made it difficult to study in college.  I was fortunate, I was Viet Nam era but didn't have to go to Nam.  I did know several guys who did go to Nam from the volunteer Fire Company in my home town. Fortunately, they all came home in one piece.







[/quote]

[Red Arrow]

I guess the only choice is to re-elect the only real Republican in the race - Obama (as bad as that may be for other reasons).

We will just have to disagree on Obama.  I cannot call him a Republican in any sense.

[Red Arrow]

 And socialism?  When I took MBA econ class, they defined that as a 'demand economy' where the government 'demands' goods and services - using fiscal policy to create economic activity by spending money on goods and services to accomplish it's goals.

I do not have a favorable opinion of the last few generations of MBAs.  Every discipline has a way of defining things to meet their needs.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I do not have a favorable opinion of the last few generations of MBAs.  Every discipline has a way of defining things to meet their needs.

Neither do I!  Harvard MBA syndrome is one of the worst afflictions we have had to deal with since the last big smallpox epidemics.  I don't have the MBA, but have taken a couple courses in that direction, then stopped.  Have a kid who got one and we had to have a talk - actually several, and ongoing - to get her brain back in alignment with the real world so that she doesn't buy into the fantasy that her carp don't stink... they teach that in MBA 101.  And it is SOOOO wrong!!!

[Conan71]

Many intelligent people I know were discussing it during the past week. You find it disturbing rather than honest?

The only intelligent person you know is me.  You didn't ask my opinion prior to now.

[Teatownclown]

It won't be long before General Santa Anna's great great grandchildren see they were better off as Mexicans....

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/texas_gops_2012_platform_accidentally_opposes_teaching_of_critical_thinking_skills.php

It's no longer "the dumbing down" of America....It is now, "why do you want America to be a shadow of it's old country?"

And Conan, we know your opinion. Don't need no "whethermen" to know which way RM's wind blows....

Mean people suck. Those that fail to see what's going on in the world and our diminishing stature in that world suck more.

[Teatownclown]

The disrespect shown for our leaders is more evidence:
Allen West: President Obama Wants Americans To 'Be His Slave'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/02/allen-west-president-obama-wants-americans-to-be-his-slave_n_1643769.html?ncid=txtlnkushpmg00000037

Where are his 78 names of the socialists in Congress anyway?

[Conan71]

The disrespect shown for our leaders is more evidence:
Allen West: President Obama Wants Americans To 'Be His Slave'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/02/allen-west-president-obama-wants-americans-to-be-his-slave_n_1643769.html?ncid=txtlnkushpmg00000037

Where are his 78 names of the socialists in Congress anyway?

Where were you to decry this during "Shrub's" admin?  Talk about bitter disrespect.  And racism.  Just ask Kanye.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Please re-read AquaMan's post: 
Kennedy did cut the marginal tax rates and raise federal tax income though.  I will agree to the concept of diminishing returns at our current levels though.

I guess I don't understand what you mean about the diminishing returns...??  Is that to imply that raising the tax rates 3% is going to be worse to end up at 36% than when they were 70% and more?

[Red Arrow]

I guess I don't understand what you mean about the diminishing returns...??  Is that to imply that raising the tax rates 3% is going to be worse to end up at 36% than when they were 70% and more?

There was probably more benefit regarding increased tax income by reducing the marginal rates from  90% & 70% to 50 % than from 50% to 33%.   I don't remember the exact numbers but they illustrate the principal.

[Teatownclown]

@Conan...we've been through the shrubs before...he purposely lied us into a war we could not afford. Quit with your false equivalencies. Bush should have been impeached and driven from office. He still does not travel over seas for fear of being jailed. http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/11859-romneys-weekend-with-establishment-bush-era-warmongers

Red Arrow, I really could care less that you do not think the INFORMATION I post is credible. Quit with your personal attacks in other threads. They reek of a failure to think which leads us to why this thread is valid. We've become a country that's lost it's place because we are misinformed and really don't want to know the truth while belittling each other.  


AND, with regard to a %70 tax bracket, the government had a tax code developed with incentives to build businesses, invest, and take risk. It enabled many Americans to move up the income ladder. Todays code is designed to shrink the government...not the military portion.

[Conan71]

@Conan...we've been through the shrubs before...he purposely lied us into a war we could not afford. Quit with your false equivalencies. Bush should have been impeached and driven from office. He still does not travel over seas for fear of being jailed. http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/11859-romneys-weekend-with-establishment-bush-era-warmongers

Red Arrow, I really could care less that you do not think the INFORMATION I post is credible. Quit with your personal attacks in other threads. They reek of a failure to think which leads us to why this thread is valid. We've become a country that's lost it's place because we are misinformed and really don't want to know the truth while belittling each other.  

Think of all the things POTUS Obama has lied to us about or simply sweeps things under the rug.  Hundreds of Mexicans killed in a reckless ATF/DOJ/FBI/CIA clusterfuck.  Drone attacks on innocent people.  We are still losing soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan after being assured this nightmare would end. You really think rendition has ended?  He didn't give his most ardent supporters single payer.  If you think Obamacare will morph into that without bankrupting Medicaid and Medicare, you've got another thing coming.  He's tried to lie and cajole his way through this jacked up economy, but finally after four years, it's becoming apparent he doesn't have a clue.  Soak the rich and feed the poor?  Hahahah!  How's that coming along?

[Teatownclown]

Think of all the things POTUS Obama has lied to us about or simply sweeps things under the rug.  Hundreds of Mexicans killed in a reckless ATF/DOJ/FBI/CIA clusterfuck.  Drone attacks on innocent people.  We are still losing soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan after being assured this nightmare would end. You really think rendition has ended?  He didn't give his most ardent supporters single payer.  If you think Obamacare will morph into that without bankrupting Medicaid and Medicare, you've got another thing coming.  He's tried to lie and cajole his way through this jacked up economy, but finally after four years, it's becoming apparent he doesn't have a clue.  Soak the rich and feed the poor?  Hahahah!  How's that coming along?

even more evidence!