You did not do that!

[heironymouspasparagus]

If that's Henry Ford...why no, he didn't. There were cars built years before Ford. He simply used someone else's concept of interchangeable parts (Winchester or Remington I believe) and someone else's concept of assembly line production, then took the concept of vehicles the French had made years earlier and changed the power plant to a smelly, noisy, less powerful gasoline driven motor that, yes...someone else had invented.

Not a very good example the Republican's put together so quickly.

Eli Whitney.

[Conan71]

Better than the whiny 'apologize or else' from Myth Romney.

I don't suppose you've heard the pathetic cries of: "The RNC, Romney, etc" needs to repudiate Limpbag's latest hoof-in-mouth moment" have you?

[nathanm]

lack of governmental support

Let's call a spade a spade and say "the active hostility of government." (for those who are not showered with tax breaks, anyway)

That's the silliest part about all our argument here. Both sides agree that government is hostile to one group or another. The disagreement is about what should be done about that. Some folks want more of the same, other folks want something different. Both think that their way is "different" and the other's is "more of the same." Go figure. Seems like some reading ought to sort all this out.

[Conan71]

Gas thinks he gets all the credit. That's the point. Ford was a genius! An innovator! An entrepreneur! blah, blah, blah. He was a successful businessman who put the pieces together in the right country with the right government, but many were working on the same designs at the same time all over the world. The elements were converging. Why didn't they become geniuses? Little support available for most of them. At the time Ford, Edison and other so called geniuses were busy stealing their employees and others' truly innovative ideas and claiming them as their own (Tesla comes to mind).

I often relate the story of the man who designed the ratchet. He did it on his own time in his own garage and Sears paid him $15 for the idea and turned it into an industry standard tool. The guy would have died destitute had the taxpayer not funded government, that provided courts that decided in his favor and forced Sears to pay him for his hard work. Would he have been a genius had he failed in court? Would Ford be a genius had the government not subsidized railroads, highways, oil drilling etc? Would the entrepreneur, innovator, fellow who developed Granola be a genius had he sold the rights to General Foods instead of marketing them himself and watching in horror as GF copied his product? They succeeded or failed based on the support they gathered from many people all over the world.

No one does it all alone. Not even Ford and he would be the first to admit it. Edison not so much.

To follow his logic, when an idea fails for lack of timing, location, lack of governmental support, and a host of other critical elements, then that person must be a dolt, a loser, a business failure. That just doesn't wash.

Nice mash up on the verifiable legacy of success which Henry Ford created.

You know why Obama is viewed as such an abject failure by those who DO create jobs and those who DO innovate in this country?  It's got nothing to do with him being a Democrat or being black.  Many of those people who view Obama with disdain and suspicion enjoyed great success under Bill Clinton and look at the Clinton years as being a time of great prosperity. 

Clinton managed to get tax increases through without framing it as some sort of "duty" or "patriotism" or that building wealth was somehow evil. Clinton attempts to carry that tone today in saying that criticizing Bain and people like Romney for their success is wrong. 

Clinton, like Obama had a very, very short resume in the private sector.  However, Clinton had a great respect for the private sector and it's importance to the American way of life.  Obama doesn't get it, he thinks creating resentment by making it look as if the wealthiest only got there on the broken backs of the minions is a winning strategy.

I've never seen a leader so adept at blaming everyone else for his failures and claiming other's hard work as his own, while managing to further polarize the American Republic.  It's truly sick.

[Red Arrow]

Gas thinks he gets all the credit.

The impression I get from many of "you" is that there is no personal talent, work ethic, intelligence, or anything but support from everyone else in the world and good luck involved in financial success.  It's all a throw of the dice.

[nathanm]

I've never seen a leader so adept at blaming everyone else for his failures and claiming other's hard work as his own, while managing to further polarize the American Republic.  It's truly sick.

Funny how you seem to have gotten nuttier after removing yourself from the Republican party. If you took a moment to understand what he's saying, you'd realize it's about one group of people acquiring enough influence over government to get favor after favor while pushing all the cost onto everyone else. It's not about private enterprise being a problem, it's again about a certain group of people redefining the very meaning of private enterprise to include bailouts, subsidies, and tax dodges. The economy is in the smile because our largest corporations now find it effectively impossible to create real economic value because of the sick system we have.

The problem is that for all their crowing about deregulation this and tax cut that, what the Republicans actually do is just more of the same stuff that's killing us. More tax loopholes, more excessive deregulation, more hostility toward law enforcement (as long as it's the kind of law enforcement that might ensnare the rich, that is). Basically the same smile over again.  At least Obama is willing to talk about the problem. Your outrage should be directed at those who created the system, not the person who is telling you about the system. Not that Obama has done anything more than talk on this particular issue.

You might want to rethink your opinion on Clinton, though. He's been singing much the same tune since the financial crisis.

RA, you can only think that if you don't read what we write.

[Red Arrow]

I guess you're not aware of joint stock companies. Welcome to the 17th century.

I am actually aware that through mutual funds, 401K and other instruments that the mildly wealthy can also be affected.  The little guy (99%) can barely live from paycheck to paycheck and will have no excess to invest in anything except the basic necessities like food and clothing.

And just to be clear, I care about fraud being prosecuted no matter who is on the receiving end of it.

I hope so but I sometimes think your bias leans toward wealthy Republicans, believing that no one else is capable of such activities.

[Red Arrow]

RA, you can only think that if you don't read what we write.

I see an attitude in the writing as much as the words.

Someone this AM quoted Simon and Garfunkle (from the Boxer) about a man seeing what he wants to see.  I see the left seeing only what they want to see in the writing of the right too.  Since that's all that's seen (perhaps by everyone) they don't see that they aren't seeing the whole picture.

[nathanm]

I am actually aware that through mutual funds, 401K and other instruments that the mildly wealthy can also be affected.  The little guy (99%) can barely live from paycheck to paycheck and will have no excess to invest in anything except the basic necessities like food and clothing.

Well, given that it takes over $506,000 a year in annual income to be in the top 1% of income among married people (who file jointly), I dare say that many of the "little guys" are impacted by this.

Also, I'm quite aware that others are capable of fraud. It happens all the time. They're just already usually prosecuted under the current regime.

[Red Arrow]

Well, given that it takes over $506,000 a year in annual income to be in the top 1% of income among married people (who file jointly), I dare say that many of the "little guys" are impacted by this.

Also, I'm quite aware that others are capable of fraud. It happens all the time. They're just already usually prosecuted under the current regime.

You're not really a little guy unless you are starving or at best living from paycheck to paycheck, regardless of the arbitrary number of 99%.

I also get tired of hearing about people that make over $250,000 but only if you are married filing jointly, much less if you are singlebeing the dividing line of being rich as though it applies to everyone.

[nathanm]

You're not really a little guy unless you are starving or at best living from paycheck to paycheck, regardless of the arbitrary number of 99%.

Feel free to use whatever definition of a phrase you like and to keep changing it as often as you like. It's not like we're going to reach any grand understanding here anyway.

[AquaMan]

Nice mash up on the verifiable legacy of success which Henry Ford created.

You know why Obama is viewed as such an abject failure by those who DO create jobs and those who DO innovate in this country?  It's got nothing to do with him being a Democrat or being black.  Many of those people who view Obama with disdain and suspicion enjoyed great success under Bill Clinton and look at the Clinton years as being a time of great prosperity. 

Clinton managed to get tax increases through without framing it as some sort of "duty" or "patriotism" or that building wealth was somehow evil. Clinton attempts to carry that tone today in saying that criticizing Bain and people like Romney for their success is wrong. 

Clinton, like Obama had a very, very short resume in the private sector.  However, Clinton had a great respect for the private sector and it's importance to the American way of life.  Obama doesn't get it, he thinks creating resentment by making it look as if the wealthiest only got there on the broken backs of the minions is a winning strategy.

I've never seen a leader so adept at blaming everyone else for his failures and claiming other's hard work as his own, while managing to further polarize the American Republic.  It's truly sick.

Well, I was operating from memory of having read books about the time period and from excerpts from people who lived through those times. If you still think Ford did it all on his own you are wrong. You would have hated him. He paid the highest wages of any manufacturer at the time. He said he thought his workers ought to be able to afford the cars they were assembling. You do know he didn't assemble them all himself, right?

Thanks, Heiro. Although one of the gun manufacturers did pioneer interchangeability didn't they?

Oh, yeah. The rest of your post is bunk Conan. Keep trying to tilt at that windmill.

[Red Arrow]

Feel free to use whatever definition of a phrase you like and to keep changing it as often as you like.

Next week it will be 89% 

It's not like we're going to reach any grand understanding here anyway.

You are probably right on that count.  No one here really listens to anyone else anyway.

Back to the quote from the "Boxer"

[Red Arrow]

If you still think Ford did it all on his own you are wrong.

To listen to our President, Henry Ford had nothing to do with the success of his motor company.  It was all done for him, not by him.

You do know he didn't assemble them all himself, right?

Didn't you see the restored film showing Henry himself putting parts on cars on the assembly line with no one else but the film crew present?  It was really impressive.

Edit:
I believe Henry Ford had some social and certainly political views that would be unacceptable today. 

Paying his workers a wage to be able to buy the cars they assembled was probably as clever business-wise as benevolent.  More volume gets the fixed costs down and the employees were buying cars with the money he paid them.  He got some money back and kept the production line busy.   I wonder, did he pay the workers in the Mercury and Lincoln plants enough to buy those products when they came along?

[AquaMan]

The impression I get from many of "you" is that there is no personal talent, work ethic, intelligence, or anything but support from everyone else in the world and good luck involved in financial success.  It's all a throw of the dice.

Your impression is incorrect. And its curious as to how you arrived at it. Though, hard work, talent, intelligence and luck will beat hard work, talent, and intelligence alone anyday.

How in the world do you sell cars if the taxpayer, through government efforts doesn't build roads, subsidize petroleum, provide regulation, policing, etc? Without that railroads or street cars dominate. My experience in the real world of business is that some dolts stumble into massive success, some lie, cheat and steal their way into it and as long as they keep making other people money their reputation as successful entrepreneurs will stay intact. Soon as they get caught they become Bernie Madoff. Very few make it to the top being intelligent, talented and hardworking though they all believe they are. Others experience may differ.

This is either a team effort by Americans or guys like Trump are demigods who deserve all credit. Gas goes with the latter because it fits his political theories. Truth is, this is merely an effort to pull attention from Romney's mishandling of the Bain and Tax issues.