You did not do that!

[Conan71]

Well, I was operating from memory of having read books about the time period and from excerpts from people who lived through those times. If you still think Ford did it all on his own you are wrong. You would have hated him. He paid the highest wages of any manufacturer at the time. He said he thought his workers ought to be able to afford the cars they were assembling. You do know he didn't assemble them all himself, right?

Thanks, Heiro. Although one of the gun manufacturers did pioneer interchangeability didn't they?

Oh, yeah. The rest of your post is bunk Conan. Keep trying to tilt at that windmill.

Did you ever hear this sort of inane claptrap escape the lips of Clinton, Carter, Kennedy, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, or either Bush?  Of course not.

Your posts show you entirely miss the contempt Obama is trying to foment toward the creators, innovators, and those who have created opportunities for the rest of us, but I read it in your posts when you reference your own employment history, missed opportunities, and people who, in your mind have held you back. 

No one in their right mind believes Henry Ford created his car company alone.  However, the assembly line workers, the machinists, engineers, and even those whose designs he may have copied is NOT what Obama is referring to in saying he didn't do it alone. The message our misguided president is trying to clumsily cobble together is that the rich owe everyone else for their success and must pay heavier as a result.

I resent the idea that the government can carelessly piss away trillions of dollars un-checked on wars, campaign pay-backs, worthless entitlements, wars on it's own citizens (war on drugs), and simply expect the wealthiest to pay for such recklessness, because it's assumed they can afford it.

You apparently must be one of those he seeks to appeal to in his attempt at making those who believe they would be wealthy and/or successful if it weren't for the devious and evil oligarchs who keep them down.

[Red Arrow]

Your impression is incorrect.

Good.  Now all you have to do is correct that impression.

It is true that some luck into success.  I am thinking of marketing gimmicks like the pet rock or inventing something that just happened to be the right product at the right time.  Some people work hard and don't have success.  Wrong product, wrong timing, wrong location, possibly they are not capable of doing what is required regardless of how hard they work.   It's good I didn't really want to be an artist or musician.  I know I could work very hard in either of those endeavors and not be successful.  (I spent the money my mom gave me for music lessons on flying lessons.  )

The successful business people I have known (a few but not gazillions) have all done their time as a "starving artist".

[AquaMan]

Good.  Now all you have to do is correct that impression.

It is true that some luck into success.  I am thinking of marketing gimmicks like the pet rock or inventing something that just happened to be the right product at the right time.  Some people work hard and don't have success.  Wrong product, wrong timing, wrong location, possibly they are not capable of doing what is required regardless of how hard they work.   It's good I didn't really want to be an artist or musician.  I know I could work very hard in either of those endeavors and not be successful.  (I spent the money my mom gave me for music lessons on flying lessons.  )

The successful business people I have known (a few but not gazillions) have all done their time as a "starving artist".

How is it I have to correct your wrong impression?

I know engineering is hard work that requires years of education, training and experience to do well. You better know your stuff when you talk with an engineer about math and science. Yet, everyone considers themselves an expert on business. I called on hundreds of businesses in sales, consulting and startups and have been approached by just as many trying to get my business. I got the business college degree, trained in a major oil company, in newspaper, in retail, hard labor, fast food and construction.  Hustled a living in advertising, tourism, real estate, and sales. I worked hard at all of them, was talented at some of them and downright genious with at least one.  and still feel like it was all a wasted effort.  I'm telling you no one, no one makes it to the top with just their own talent, brains, hard work and spirit. They all need a network of support and a lot of luck. The ones who insist they did or know someone who did are as credible to me as UFO's are to engineers. This stuff Gas, Limbo, Rmoney and Sununu are peddling is crazy stuff. Zig Ziglar stuff.

Note: Hah!http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/utah-man-confessional-obituary-owns-life-pranks-180934687.html Read the third and fourth paragraphs. He took advantage of luck and didn't admit it till his obituary!

[AquaMan]

Did you ever hear this sort of inane claptrap escape the lips of Clinton, Carter, Kennedy, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, or either Bush?  Of course not.

Your posts show you entirely miss the contempt Obama is trying to foment toward the creators, innovators, and those who have created opportunities for the rest of us, but I read it in your posts when you reference your own employment history, missed opportunities, and people who, in your mind have held you back. 

No one in their right mind believes Henry Ford created his car company alone.  However, the assembly line workers, the machinists, engineers, and even those whose designs he may have copied is NOT what Obama is referring to in saying he didn't do it alone. The message our misguided president is trying to clumsily cobble together is that the rich owe everyone else for their success and must pay heavier as a result.

I resent the idea that the government can carelessly piss away trillions of dollars un-checked on wars, campaign pay-backs, worthless entitlements, wars on it's own citizens (war on drugs), and simply expect the wealthiest to pay for such recklessness, because it's assumed they can afford it.

You apparently must be one of those he seeks to appeal to in his attempt at making those who believe they would be wealthy and/or successful if it weren't for the devious and evil oligarchs who keep them down.

The contempt you hear in his speech is a reflection of the contempt you feel for him and perhaps for me. Nothing more. The speech I heard was pretty insightful and intelligent. I was surprised that he was that aware and it actually played well with everyone I've spoken to but this forum. The conclusions you have drawn from the speech are wire thin. Really, Obama doesn't revere successful people? Obama doesn't believe in rewarding hard work and innovation? The rich owe the rest of us for their success? Yeh, that is about as believable as any of the other conspiracies you and Gas have cooked up lately. And certainly as believable as the NRA's fast and furious conspiracy theories.

This recycling of old phrases like "rugged individualism" and stories about Henry Ford and other titans from the gilded age are not being used lightly. That is the period that a lot of conservative Republicans  would like to recreate. Cheap labor, well defined classes, no taxes and a weak government.

[Red Arrow]

How is it I have to correct your wrong impression?

Stop appearing to follow the apparent attitude of the President that hard work, talent... have no part in success.  He may not mean it either but the words he is using convey that message.

I know engineering is hard work that requires years of education, training and experience to do well. You better know your stuff when you talk with an engineer about math and science. Yet, everyone considers themselves an expert on business.

I know what you mean.  Everyone who has ever nailed two boards together thinks they are a mechanical engineer.  OK, maybe a bit exaggerated but more people think they know more than they do with mechanical stuff.  Heiron chose a better path in that regard.  Electricity scares almost everyone because they can't see it.  Those who aren't afraid quickly learn to respect it.

I called on hundreds of businesses in sales, consulting and startups and have been approached by just as many trying to get my business. I got the business college degree, trained in a major oil company, in newspaper, in retail, hard labor, fast food and construction.  Hustled a living in advertising, tourism, real estate, and sales. I worked hard at all of them, was talented at some of them and downright genious with at least one.  and still feel like it was all a wasted effort.  I'm telling you no one, no one makes it to the top with just their own talent, brains, hard work and spirit. They all need a network of support and a lot of luck. The ones who insist they did or know someone who did are as credible to me as UFO's are to engineers. This stuff Gas, Limbo, Rmoney and Sununu are peddling is crazy stuff. Zig Ziglar stuff.

I hate to say it but I mean it when I say that perhaps you present a negative attitude which does you no favors.  We don't know each other personally so I'm guessing but think about it. 

You may have never found your niche.  As I wrote earlier,  I know of several possible careers in which I would have NOT been successful.   I am sorry you have such a bitter outlook on life.  I am guessing that your water business was your favorite.  Maybe you would have been more successful with that in another location.  Sometimes there is just not enough market in a particular area.  I doubt I would have been successful as an engineer in Buffalo, OK (in the panhandle, I just chose a small circle at random).    Being a farmer in NYC probably also has limited opportunities.

[Red Arrow]

Note: Hah!http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/utah-man-confessional-obituary-owns-life-pranks-180934687.html Read the third and fourth paragraphs. He took advantage of luck and didn't admit it till his obituary!

Wow!  A statistical sample of one.  How many people are there in the USA?

You are so intent on proving that no one can be successful without luck that it makes you look desperate.

[Teatownclown]

I seldom comment on this drek that is out of context KRMG crud. So funny to watch the righties struggling to make issues by taking a soundbite and blowing it up.

Don't be baited by ditto heads.

[nathanm]

Being a farmer in NYC probably also has limited opportunities.

The thing is that everyone's opportunities are being limited by our insistence on subsidizing the already wealthy and the large corporations they control. It's a lot harder to make it when much of your tax dollar is being spent to support your competitors.

[Red Arrow]

The thing is that everyone's opportunities are being limited by our insistence on subsidizing the already wealthy and the large corporations they control. It's a lot harder to make it when much of your tax dollar is being spent to support your competitors.

So you think that someone should be able to buy property in NYC, bring in some cows and chickens, grow some tomatoes and corn and be competitive with a farmer in Iowa?

You also appear to believe that only the rich have access to the infrastructure (roads, bridges) that makes it possible for exceedingly lucky to be successful. People who receive direct assistance are not being subsidized?  Parents of kids going to public school are not being subsidized?  Take your blinders off, please.

[Red Arrow]

I seldom comment on this drek that is out of context KRMG crud. So funny to watch the righties struggling to make issues by taking a soundbite and blowing it up.

Don't be baited by ditto heads.

You forgot FOX.

[nathanm]

So you think that someone should be able to buy property in NYC, bring in some cows and chickens, grow some tomatoes and corn and be competitive with a farmer in Iowa?

You also appear to believe that only the rich have access to the infrastructure (roads, bridges) that makes it possible for exceedingly lucky to be successful. People who receive direct assistance are not being subsidized?  Parents of kids going to public school are not being subsidized?  Take your blinders off, please.

No, that would be absurd. But the family farmer does get to contend with the extra subsidy the big agribusiness gets that he doesn't. The local movie theater that's been in business for 80 years ends up paying for the new theater in the development on the edge of town.

My blinders are off. Everyone gets some subsidy or benefit or whatever. Some people, however, get that and a small country's GDP more. Perhaps the relative size of the subsidy might clue you in as to why I focus on one and not the other.

[Teatownclown]

You forgot FOX.

Same sheeple....

[dbacks fan]

Opportunities and creativity for new products have been long developed by adapting and creating new things based on an existing thing. My ex-brother in law has been developing a tattoo gun, that came from the cosmetic surgery field, and is evolving into mainstream use, and it has taken since 1996 to evolve, and he has done this without any gov't help. He was presented with an idea to create something new based on what was already existing, without any copyright or patent infrigement, and created a new device. Yes he created it with the help of people that needed something, but it was his design that made it work. And he had no help from the Fed or State gov't to do his work. He worked from an idea, and developed his business on his own.

http://www.taptatdaddio.com/

[Gaspar]

If that's Henry Ford...why no, he didn't. There were cars built years before Ford. He simply used someone else's concept of interchangeable parts (Winchester or Remington I believe) and someone else's concept of assembly line production, then took the concept of vehicles the French had made years earlier and changed the power plant to a smelly, noisy, less powerful gasoline driven motor that, yes...someone else had invented.

Not a very good example the Republican's put together so quickly.

Innovation is not invention.  Invention is the spark, innovation is the engine.  Invention takes place all the time and most people don't become successful from it because it requires innovation to work, and that's hard work.  Henry Ford was an innovator, not an inventor. To look at what he did and say "no big deal" or otherwise belittle the achievement is exactly the problem we are pointing out.

You are of the exact same mindset of the president.  Your envy and hatred of success make you perceive people such a Henry Ford or Steve Jobs, or Mitt Romney as somehow gaming the system, or just getting lucky.  It must be a horrible way to live life with that leviathan on your back.

[Hoss]

Innovation is not invention.  Invention is the spark, innovation is the engine.  Invention takes place all the time and most people don't become successful from it because it requires innovation to work, and that's hard work.  Henry Ford was an innovated, not an inventor. To look at what he did and say "no big deal" or otherwise belittle the achievement is exactly the problem we are pointing out.

You are of the exact same mindset of the president.  Your envy and hatred of success make you perceive people such a Henry Ford or Steve Jobs, or Mitt Romney as somehow gaming the system, or just getting lucky.  It must be a horrible way to live life with that leviathan on your back.

Wow.  You're just shy of the deep end now.