OFF THE CLIFF!

[RecycleMichael]

We have to cut defense spending. We spend more than the next 18 countries combined. We are at peace (relatively). I can see increased spending during war, but why can't we consider decreased spending when we are not at war?

[Townsend]

I can see increased spending during war, but why can't we consider decreased spending when we are not at war?

Lobbies.

[shadows]

We have to cut defense spending. We spend more than the next 18 countries combined. We are at peace (relatively). I can see increased spending during war, but why can't we consider decreased spending when we are not at war?

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It seems for a nation with such highly educated citizens should be able to find the total obligation to it citizens seeing the danger of the cliff before addressing it.   Official figures place a total of over $200 trillion dollars.  We want to reduce National Debt obligation by decreasing the national debt of $200+Trillion dollars at $1150 billion dollars yearly and pay for it by increasing the national debt ceiling. 

This must be the new math being taught.  It is like writing a check to cover a overdrawn check.   



           

[RecycleMichael]

$200 trillion seems like a lot of money. Are you sure about that amount?

[Red Arrow]

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This must be the new math being taught.  It is like writing a check to cover a overdrawn check.

It seems to work until the creditors say enough is enough.

[Red Arrow]

$200 trillion seems like a lot of money. Are you sure about that amount?

Must be Old Math.   

[Gaspar]

Perhaps next time it would be a good idea to read it before you pass it?
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/MedDeviceLetter12102012.pdf

[RecycleMichael]

Merry Cliffmas

[Townsend]

On 'Fiscal Cliff,' Majority Of Public Sides With Democrats, Pew Poll Says

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/12/13/167159547/on-fiscal-cliff-majority-of-public-sides-with-democrats-pew-poll-says?sc=tw&cc=share

As the end-of-year tax increases and spending cuts known as the "fiscal cliff" near, "Democrats are in a strong position with the public," the Pew Research Center reports.

A new national poll Pew released this morning shows that:

— "When it comes to the reaching an agreement to avoid the fiscal cliff, 55% say Obama is making a serious effort to work with Republicans. But just 32% say Republican leaders are making a serious effort to work with Obama on a deficit deal."

— President Obama's "first post-reelection job approval rating has risen to 55%, up five points since July and 11 points since the start of the year. Obama's job rating is markedly higher than George W. Bush's first job measure (48%) after he won reelection in 2004."

— "By a 53% to 33% margin, the public sees the Republican Party, rather than the Democratic Party, as 'more extreme in its positions.' Democrats, on the other hand, are seen as "more willing to work with leaders from the other party" by roughly two-to-one (53% vs. 27%)."

The national survey of 1,503 adults was conducted Dec. 5-9. Pew says that "900 respondents were interviewed on a landline telephone, and 603 were interviewed on a cell phone, including 300 who had no landline telephone." The margin of error on results from the full survey is +/- 2.9 percentage points.

The results echo those of a survey Pew did for The Washington Post in late November and earlier in December. In that poll, 53 percent of those surveyed said Republicans would be "more to blame" if there's no agreement reached to avoid going over the so-called cliff. Twenty-nine percent said Obama would be to blame.

Andrew Kohut, president of the Pew Research Center, is due to speak with All Things Considered this afternoon about the latest poll results. We'll add the broadcast-version of that conversation to the top of this post later. Click here to find an NPR station that broadcasts or streams the show.

[Gaspar]

On 'Fiscal Cliff,' Majority Of Public Sides With Democrats, Pew Poll Says

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/12/13/167159547/on-fiscal-cliff-majority-of-public-sides-with-democrats-pew-poll-says?sc=tw&cc=share

Yep!  The masses like stuff.  The masses do not like to pay for stuff.

The masses believe that you can cure a spending problem with taxes and spending.

Perfect storm.  Here kitty kitty kitty kitty.

[Townsend]

Yep!  The masses like stuff.  The masses do not like to pay for stuff.

The masses believe that you can cure a spending problem with taxes and spending.

All masses?  Well then the GOP is on the wrong path.  Probably need to figure out from the masses what they should cut then.

Meeting with corporate heads and lobbyists might not be the way to figure out what the masses want and are willing to do without.

Shoot, the democrats are way off too.

As an example, I'm betting there are some weapons and bases we could do without.  Probably could shut down a few other things but I have a feeling there's some powers beyond the masses controlling those decisions.

We'd better just fight about how to tax the money over $250,000 in a household.  That'll make the difference.

[Gaspar]

All masses?  Well then the GOP is on the wrong path.  Probably need to figure out from the masses what they should cut then.

Meeting with corporate heads and lobbyists might not be the way to figure out what the masses want and are willing to do without.
Shoot, the democrats are way off too. Agree!

As an example, I'm betting there are some weapons and bases we could do without.  Probably could shut down a few other things but I have a feeling there's some powers beyond the masses controlling those decisions.  Agree!

We'd better just fight about how to tax the money over $250,000 in a household.  That'll make the difference. Wrong!

Our debt exceeds our GDP! Any increase, especially one that creates such a small amount of revenue will be gone in a puff of smoke, in fact, according to the proposal from the President 75% of the new tax on the evil rich is to go to new spending, not 'making a difference" through deficit reduction.


. . .then, just like last year, and the year before, and the year before,  the conversation will shift to debt ceiling increase, then in 10 months we will be back to discussing the wild and crazy idea of actually passing budget reforms, and get another couple of budgets passed by the house that will sit on the table in the senate with the other three budgets, and we will have this same discussion again, except our debt will be close to 20 trillion, and we will be knee deep in attempting to police and fund a health entitlement program that is beyond the size and scope of any entitlement program our government has ever managed.

I understand that the president does not want to let a crisis go to waste, and now is his best opportunity to make good on his eat the rich promises, but that has little to do with the spending problem, and the revenue from that is minuscule, even if it were used to pay down debt, which of course he has no intension of doing.

[Townsend]

Our debt exceeds our GDP! Any increase, especially one that creates such a small amount of revenue will be gone in a puff of smoke, in fact, according to the proposal from the President 75% of the new tax on the evil rich is to go to new spending, not 'making a difference" through deficit reduction.

. . .then, just like last year, and the year before, and the year before,  the conversation will shift to debt ceiling increase, then in 10 months we will be back to discussing the wild and crazy idea of actually passing budget reforms, and get another couple of budgets passed by the house that will sit on the table in the senate with the other three budgets, and we will have this same discussion again, except our debt will be close to 20 trillion, and we will be knee deep in attempting to police and fund a health entitlement program that is beyond the size and scope of any entitlement program our government has ever managed.

I understand that the president does not want to let a crisis go to waste, and now is his best opportunity to make good on his eat the rich promises, but that has little to do with the spending problem, and the revenue from that is minuscule, even if it were used to pay down debt, which of course he has no intension of doing.

Well you better call your guys in Washington to get this all handled.  They give a rat's exit about you and the rest of us.  Call them and tell them you have some ideas.

[Gaspar]

Well you better call your guys in Washington to get this all handled.  They give a rat's exit about you and the rest of us.  Call them and tell them you have some ideas.

Wouldn't do a lick of good. . .and it's not "my guys" it's all of them!

[Townsend]

Grover Norquist: GOP Will Keep Obama On 'Short Leash,' Leave Him To 'Blow Up Small Countries'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/13/grover-norquist-obama_n_2293896.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003

Grover Norquist expressed confidence on Thursday that Republican adherents to his rigid anti-tax hike platform would emerge victorious in upcoming budgetary scraps, joking that it would leave a bitter President Barack Obama to engage in a campaign of indiscriminately bombing "small countries" for his personal entertainment.

Speaking on C-SPAN's "Washington Journal," Norquist argued that congressional Republicans had a number of weapons ready to wield against Obama and Democrats in order to ensure that there would be no spending increases or tax hikes.

"Obama will be on a very short leash, fiscally speaking, over the next four years," Norquist said. "He's not going to have any fun at all; he may just have to go blow up small countries he can't pronounce because it won't be any fun to be here, because he won't be able to spend the kind of cash he was hoping to."

Norquist said that Republicans would be willing to use the threat of the sequester -- large spending cuts paired with tax hikes scheduled to kick in if a deal to avert the fiscal cliff isn't met by the end of the year -- to leverage Democrats, whom he said were fearful of that possibility. Norquist also claimed that GOP lawmakers would utilize continuing resolutions, or temporary appropriations bills used in the absence of an official budget, in order to chip away at spending.

The upcoming battle over raising the debt ceiling could also be used by Republicans who would decide how long to extend it for, Norquist said.

Democrats have tried to strip the debt ceiling power away from Republicans in recent negotiations, but GOP lawmakers have so far resisted, clinging to it as one of their strongest mechanisms to resist spending increases.