OFF THE CLIFF!

[Townsend]

You would know better than I since I have not really followed, or really cared, about this mess. We have been so close to complete and total collapse of our economy and life as we know it so often I am immune.

I've moved toward the same as you.  There's nothing I can do about it and I'm tired of it taking up my time.

I will either be taxed more or taxed less.  I can't control it and at the moment, it's depressing.

[Gaspar]

OK, since that's what you take away from this, how so?

He is everything that is wrong with Congress.  He will not bring a permanent budget to the floor of the senate for debate, not his, not the president's, nor any of the three passed by the house.  This inaction on budget activity is what has forced a "patchwork" of temporary measures over the last three years who's expiration combined with the law requiring sequestration if congress fails to act on a budget ( Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Deficit Reduction Act of 1985) created what Ben Bernanke eloquently analogized as "The Fiscal Cliff."

Now is he solely responsible? No!  The fact that the president failed over and over again to push the senate towards a budget, giving Reid a pass on his almost treasonous refusal to even mantle the responsibilities of his job is also to blame.

Then you have the fact that Harry is historically one of the prime defenders of pork.
"I've done earmarks all my career, and I'm happy I've done earmarks all my career. "-Harry Reid, January 31st 2012

Therefore his primary career achevement has been F------ the American people.

Now the media is going to flutter around to convince the typical low information voters that Reid and the President should get an award for averting the fiscal cliff.
That's like giving an arsonist an award for putting out his own fire!

Harry. . .

[RecycleMichael]

That phrase "low information voter" really pisses me off. Rush Limbaugh uses it to bash liberals all the time. It is insulting and inaccurate. 

[Gaspar]

That phrase "low information voter" really pisses me off. Rush Limbaugh uses it to bash liberals all the time. It is insulting and inaccurate. 

I don't listen to rush.  I use it to describe any voter (Liberal or otherwise) who simply relies on the media rather than doing their own research, or taking time to understand the actions of government.

[Townsend]

I don't listen to rush.  I use it to describe any voter (Liberal or otherwise) who simply relies on the media rather than doing their own research, or taking time to understand the actions of government.

Where are you doing your research?

[Gaspar]

Where are you doing your research?

Read the summery of every important bill, then read each proposed amendment: http://thomas.loc.gov/home/thomas.php
Get the impact projections: http://www.cbo.gov/

Sprinkle with analysis from a little HuffPo, WSJ, Fox, and CBS, and you find the real story.

You have to be critical of every source.  The sad thing is that a majority of Americans get their political education from a single news source, or worse, a growing number are so disengaged that they require constant entertainment, and therefore only get their news from comedy or music outlets. They are the ADD side of the low information population.

[AquaMan]

Read the summery of every important bill, then read each proposed amendment: http://thomas.loc.gov/home/thomas.php
Get the impact projections: http://www.cbo.gov/

Sprinkle with analysis from a little HuffPo, WSJ, Fox, and CBS, and you find the real story.

You have to be critical of every source.  The sad thing is that a majority of Americans get their political education from a single news source, or worse, a growing number are so disengaged that they require constant entertainment, and therefore only get their news from comedy or music outlets. They are the ADD side of the low information population.

They also don't know how to change a spare tire, what RSVP stands for or what a derivative is. IOW, a lot of people are simply enjoying having a life.

[Gaspar]

They also don't know how to change a spare tire, what RSVP stands for or what a derivative is. IOW, a lot of people are simply enjoying having a life.

You don't have to be interested in politics, but understand that politics is always interested in you!
The less the people know, the more powerful the politicians become.

[AquaMan]

You don't have to be interested in politics, but understand that politics is always interested in you!
The less the people know, the more powerful the politicians become.

I obviously am interested in politics and love discussion when I'm well armed to do so. But, don't you have faith? Don't you believe in leveraging? Without those life is really hard cause you have to know everything about everything and those who do are insufferable because they really can't and they don't really have a life.

Relax for heaven's sake. The smartest, most conservative guy I ever knew told me in 1975 that if Carter was elected the next year I would lose my mortgage interest deduction! Now 37 years later Republicans want to do just that! Had I obsessed and believed him I would have rented an apartment instead of buying a home back then.

I trust that the people we elect, have our best interests at heart because they are similar to the electorate's interests. Even Boehner, Inhofe and Coburn. I could spend inordinate amounts of time learning arcane economic principles and spout off on a forum where absolutely no one important gives a rodents rearend what I say, or I could soak up as much as possible from MY favorite sources and reconcile myself to the idea that my leaders are getting even more knowledge on the subject than I am. I can then choose who sounds the best informed. Even so my opinion is likely dust in the wind. I wouldn't for a moment think that those who disagree with me are less intelligent, less informed or being led astray by ignorant agendas.

I replace my own brakes on my Kia because I know how and I'm cheap. $37.99. I don't think those who pay $200 to have a shop do it are just poorly informed.

[Red Arrow]

I replace my own brakes on my Kia because I know how and I'm cheap. $37.99. I don't think those who pay $200 to have a shop do it are just poorly informed.

Those who have a shop do the work are probably well informed... that they don't know how, don't have the tools, or just don't want to do it.

It's the guys who think they know how but really don't know how that are poorly informed.  It may be the driver behind you at the next intersection.   

[Red Arrow]

That phrase "low information voter" really pisses me off. Rush Limbaugh uses it to bash liberals all the time. It is insulting and inaccurate. 

I doubt the term "low information voter" was intended to be a compliment any more than the names the left calls the right.   Just let it go as politics.  At least it's something you could say in front of your Grandmother. (Stereotype intended.)

As for accuracy.  There are "low information voters" all over the political spectrum.  To claim there are no liberal "low information voters" is to bury your head in the sand.

I don't listen to Rush either.  I do occasionally catch some of his sound bites though.

[AquaMan]

Those who have a shop do the work are probably well informed... that they don't know how, don't have the tools, or just don't want to do it.

It's the guys who think they know how but really don't know how that are poorly informed.  It may be the driver behind you at the next intersection.   

Better move over quickly if you see a blue Kia behind you on the B.A.!

[heironymouspasparagus]

Check your pay stubs people. I read the payroll tax is going back to 6.2% on everyone (who of course pays those taxes).  

Which, as you well know, is everyone on a W2.  And yet, someone here we all know and love gets to stop paying those taxes after the first 100k or so...in other words, the vast majority of his income....

[heironymouspasparagus]

He is everything that is wrong with Congress.  He will not bring a permanent budget to the floor of the senate for debate, not his, not the president's, nor any of the three passed by the house.  This inaction on budget activity is what has forced a "patchwork" of temporary measures over the last three years who's expiration combined with the law requiring sequestration if congress fails to act on a budget ( Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Deficit Reduction Act of 1985) created what Ben Bernanke eloquently analogized as "The Fiscal Cliff."

For someone who claims to watch so closely, there seems to be a basic misunderstanding of some fundamentals.  There is no such thing as bringing a permanent budget to the floor of the Senate for debate - nor the House for that matter.  There is only voting on bills.  And spending bills are by definition supposed to originate in the House.  And we see here in the last few months that the Senate actually DID pass a bill that really can only be viewed as a recommendation or template for something the House might do.

So, why has the House, under Boehner been dragging it's feet for so long??


Fox and WSJ are the same thing....

[Gaspar]

For someone who claims to watch so closely, there seems to be a basic misunderstanding of some fundamentals.  There is no such thing as bringing a permanent budget to the floor of the Senate for debate - nor the House for that matter.  There is only voting on bills.  And spending bills are by definition supposed to originate in the House.  And we see here in the last few months that the Senate actually DID pass a bill that really can only be viewed as a recommendation or template for something the House might do.

So, why has the House, under Boehner been dragging it's feet for so long??


Fox and WSJ are the same thing....

So are we going to change the debate and attempt to push the idea that there is now "no such thing" as the budgeting process or requirement? 

Article I, section 9, clause 7 of The Constitution of the United States provides: "[n]o money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and account of Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time." 

In addition, Article I, section5, clause 2, of the Constitution reserves to each House of Congress the authority to determine the rules governing its procedures. The Budget and Accounting Act of 1921 forms the requirement, and, The Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974 (the Budget Act), which contains several titles and sections that affect the internal procedures of the House and Senate.  The Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Deficit Reduction Act of 1985 imposes concequences to the development of uncontrolled spending in the event that a budget is not ratified.

Here's how it works: The Congressional Budget Process

If the new way to defend uncontrolled spending is to push the idea that budgets aren't important, and that congress has no responsibility to produce a budget, I doubt you'll get much traction.