TAX THE INTERNET?

[shadows]

The legislators, both great and small keep eyeing the sales tax that is going uncollected on out-of-state sales over the internet.   Although the cities and states are unable to convince the populist or have been unable to educate the citizens of the honor system where they are required to remit to the authorities such out-of-states purchases and pay a use tax on the purchases, it has again become open for deep discussion among the law makers.
Because the state/city collection of authorized sales taxes (which was installed during the great depression as to be collected to assist the aged) has been converted to the general operational funds.  The cities see a cash cow in the pasture on the other side of the fence and seek to milk it. It is by law that one state cannot asses a tax on the citizens of another state so it is presumed that a city cannot tax the citizens of another state.  Then also the sales taxes that are diverted to the general fund of city/state/of the internet merchant should be converted to the government's general fund of that city/state where the sales originate.

Tulsa was able to catch the cash cow on the sales at the fair grounds and the increase in the tax collection has given the bureaucracy a wage increase as the money was budgeted to the general fund.

The assault is on the internet sales which are being programmed for another tax.  The solution could be a $10 monthly tax on access to the internet which can be collected easily.  It can be deducted from your bank account along with your water bill.

"Don't tax me, tax that fellow behind the tree"

[Hoss]

Someone's been breathing his feared pink gas again..

Oh, and by the way, this has been talked about for over 10 years now (collecting tax on internet based companies).  It likely will never pass, and if it does, companies will figure out ways to circumvent it.

Or brick and mortar stores will have to stop charging ridiculous markups on merchandise.

[shadows]

The present state statues cover the use tax on any item purchased out of state. 
It has been a failure in its being reported on the proper forms and remitted to OTC. 
This at present covers all purchases by the internet except form showing tax exemption number.

[Hoss]

The present state statues cover the use tax on any item purchased out of state. 
It has been a failure in its being reported on the proper forms and remitted to OTC. 
This at present covers all purchases by the internet except form showing tax exemption number.

Do you think people actually report that?  In the past I had done enough internet purchases but most of mine were with companies that had presence in Oklahoma, so by law they were required to charge it.  Most people I know don't even bother with that form.  It's incredibly difficult to enforce and creates issues (a la Amazon) that put at risk those companies relocating their physical presence to states that won't pressure them to report it.  So most states back down.  I think you'll find that people already believe they pay enough for internet access and won't put up with an extra tax.  A 10 dollar tax is a horrible idea, but I'm considering the source also.

If the states hadn't slashed their taxes to the bare minimums they wouldn't have had this problem to begin with.

[Red Arrow]

Do you think people actually report that?  In the past I had done enough internet purchases but most of mine were with companies that had presence in Oklahoma, so by law they were required to charge it.  Most people I know don't even bother with that form.  It's incredibly difficult to enforce and creates issues (a la Amazon) that put at risk those companies relocating their physical presence to states that won't pressure them to report it.  So most states back down.  I think you'll find that people already believe they pay enough for internet access and won't put up with an extra tax.  A 10 dollar tax is a horrible idea, but I'm considering the source also.

If the states hadn't slashed their taxes to the bare minimums they wouldn't have had this problem to begin with.

See line 40, form 511 of your Oklahoma Income tax.  Keep yourself legal.  Are you being a tax cheat?

[Red Arrow]

Or brick and mortar stores will have to stop charging ridiculous markups on merchandise.

When brick and mortar stores charge less than internet stores when shipping is considered, the brick and mortar store will do better.  There are things I buy that are just not available in the Tulsa Metro area.  UPS and Fedex have gotten outrageous in their fees.

[Hoss]

See line 40, form 511 of your Oklahoma Income tax.  Keep yourself legal.  Are you being a tax cheat?

It also only applies if you spend more than a set amount.  I don't.  I haven't for several years.  And most of the things I've purchased on the internet (a Dell computer last year, for instance) charged me sales tax anyway.  I don't  have to report that.

[Red Arrow]

It also only applies if you spend more than a set amount.  I don't.  I haven't for several years. 

Actually, that's not true. There is a section for less than $1000 and another for more than $1000.

And most of the things I've purchased on the internet (a Dell computer last year, for instance) charged me sales tax anyway.  I don't  have to report that.

Only if the sales tax you paid exceeded the sales/use tax you would have paid in Oklahoma.  If the sales/use tax you paid is less than the Oklahoma amount, you owe the difference to Oklahoma.

You better check your door to see if the Oklahoma Tax Commission is knocking before answering.

[Hoss]

Actually, that's not true. There is a section for less than $1000 and another for more than $1000.

Only if the sales tax you paid exceeded the sales/use tax you would have paid in Oklahoma.  If the sales/use tax you paid is less than the Oklahoma amount, you owe the difference to Oklahoma.

You better check your door to see if the Oklahoma Tax Commission is knocking before answering.

Dell charged me the sales tax rate for where I was living.  Many internet shops do.  If the business has a physical presence in the state, they have to charge for the location they're shipping to.  I got charged the same sales tax rate as if I walked in somewhere in town.  Wal-Mart does the same.

I guess you ran out of Marshall's last night?

[Red Arrow]

Dell charged me the sales tax rate for where I was living.  Many internet shops do.  If the business has a physical presence in the state, they have to charge for the location they're shipping to.  I got charged the same sales tax rate as if I walked in somewhere in town.  Wal-Mart does the same.

If everything (not just a Dell Computer for instance) you bought on the internet charged and paid Oklahoma sales tax, you are right, you don't have to report it.  I find that prerequisite unlikely but then I don't know (or care) what you buy.

[Hoss]

If everything (not just a Dell Computer for instance) you bought on the internet charged and paid Oklahoma sales tax, you are right, you don't have to report it.  I find that prerequisite unlikely but then I don't know (or care) what you buy.

I just find it odd that the states are just now really starting to push this (since 2008 especially).  Well, not odd, because it seems like many states cannot work within their budgets.  Much like the federal gubmint.  I can guarantee you that no one I knew filed use tax on anything they bought on the internet.  It's tough to track, especially since those vendors don't report sales to the states.  If they did, however, it might be a different story.

And I find it odd how so many republicans grumble and moan about taxation but when it comes to something like this?  Nary a word.  That I've been able to find, anyway.

[Red Arrow]

I just find it odd that the states are just now really starting to push this (since 2008 especially).  Well, not odd, because it seems like many states cannot work within their budgets.

It's getting more publicity.  Oklahoma has always come after big items like use tax on aircraft and taxes on automobiles.  For a while, Maine had a particularly nasty deal on use tax on aircraft that were present in the state for more than a short (weeks) period.  I believe that has mostly been rectified due to  humiliation.

I can guarantee you that no one I knew filed use tax on anything they bought on the internet.  It's tough to track, especially since those vendors don't report sales to the states.  If they did, however, it might be a different story.

Everyone you know is a tax cheat yet you complain about legitimate methods to reduce taxes used by the rich.  Nice double standard.

I actually do use the easy method for reporting and paying use tax on my state form 511.  One option is to pay 0.056% of your Adjusted Gross Income.  Since you don't know me in person, your statement may still be correct about not knowing anyone who filed use tax on internet purchases.

And I find it odd how so many republicans grumble and moan about taxation but when it comes to something like this?  Nary a word.  That I've been able to find, anyway.

Count me as one who grumbles.  I think the concept of paying Oklahoma sales/use tax on something I bought in person in another state is absurd.  I can almost understand that if I buy something on the internet from a location in Oklahoma that I actually bought it in Oklahoma.  I believe most states have a provision for not charging sales tax on items being delivered out of state which, of course, complicates things.

Another tax grab I find objectionable is paying state income tax to a state where you are temporarily assigned.  My employer recently announced (internally) that they will start withholding state income tax for any location where we may be assigned for a period of (I think it was) 2 weeks or longer.   I believe the large potential tax bonus to states with visiting pro sports figures was the big catalyst in this scheme.


From the form 511 instructions:

Oklahoma Use Tax
Every state with a sales tax has a companion tax for purchases
made outside the state. In Oklahoma, that tax is called "use tax". 
If you have purchased items for use in Oklahoma from retailers
who do not collect Oklahoma sales tax whether by mail order,
catalog, television shopping networks, radio, Internet, phone or
in person, you owe Oklahoma use tax on those items. Use tax
is paid by the buyer when the Oklahoma sales tax has not been
collected by the seller. Individuals in Oklahoma are responsible
for paying use tax on their out-of-state purchases.
Examples of items that are subject to sales tax include books,
compact discs, computer equipment, computer software, elec-
tronics, clothing, appliances, furniture, sporting goods and jewel-
ry. When an out-of-state retailer does not collect Oklahoma sales
tax, the responsibility of paying the tax falls on the purchaser.
Use tax is calculated at the same rate as sales tax, which varies
by city and county. The state sales tax rate is 4.5% (.045) plus
the applicable city and/or county rates. If you do not know the
exact amount of Oklahoma use tax you owe based on your city
and county sales tax rate, you can either:
1.  Use the tax table on page 11 or multiply your
  Adjusted Gross Income from line 1 by 0.056%   
  (.00056),  
  or
2.   Use one of the worksheets below to calculate your   
  Oklahoma use tax. Complete Worksheet One if you   
  kept records of all of your out-of-state purchases.   
  Complete Worksheet Two if you did not keep records   
  of all of your out-of-state purchases.
Oklahoma Use Tax - Worksheet #2 (continued)
Worksheet Two has two parts. The first part is a   
calculation of the amount due on items that cost less   
than $1,000 each and the second part is a calculation   
of the amount due on items that cost $1,000 or more   
each. The first calculation is based on a Use Tax   
Table that reflects the estimated amount of use tax   
due by taxpayers with varying amounts of Federal   
Adjusted Gross Income. The estimated amount is   
0.056% (.00056) of Federal adjusted gross income. If   
you believe that estimate from the table is too high   
for your out-of-state purchases, you may estimate   
what you think you owe.
If you paid another state's sales or use tax on any purchase, that
amount may be credited against the Oklahoma use tax due on
that purchase.
Note:  Your use tax worksheets may be reviewed. If it is determined that
you owe more use tax than what is shown on your return, you may be
subject to an assessment for the additional use tax.
20
See Page 11 for the
Oklahoma Use Tax Table

Italics and bold are mine.

[Hoss]

It's getting more publicity.  Oklahoma has always come after big items like use tax on aircraft and taxes on automobiles.  For a while, Maine had a particularly nasty deal on use tax on aircraft that were present in the state for more than a short (weeks) period.  I believe that has mostly been rectified due to  humiliation.

Everyone you know is a tax cheat yet you complain about legitimate methods to reduce taxes used by the rich.  Nice double standard.

I actually do use the easy method for reporting and paying use tax on my state form 511.  One option is to pay 0.056% of your Adjusted Gross Income.  Since you don't know me in person, your statement may still be correct about not knowing anyone who filed use tax on internet purchases.

Count me as one who grumbles.  I think the concept of paying Oklahoma sales/use tax on something I bought in person in another state is absurd.  I can almost understand that if I buy something on the internet from a location in Oklahoma that I actually bought it in Oklahoma.  I believe most states have a provision for not charging sales tax on items being delivered out of state which, of course, complicates things.

Another tax grab I find objectionable is paying state income tax to a state where you are temporarily assigned.  My employer recently announced (internally) that they will start withholding state income tax for any location where we may be assigned for a period of (I think it was) 2 weeks or longer.   I believe the large potential tax bonus to states with visiting pro sports figures was the big catalyst in this scheme.


From the form 511 instructions:
Italics and bold are mine.

EDIT:  I actually had a longer response to this but decided something.

A.  You will never be swayed from your opinion of me, because you think you know me.  Continue doing that, since I don't know you from Adam.  And don't really want to.
B.  My finances are not your business.  As a caveat, if I run for public office, then they should be.
C.  I know that I pay more than my fair share of taxes.  I know that every time I get my payroll stub.  Oklahoma AND Federal.  The reason I know this?  I get refunds from both entities.

If it bothers you so much that people don't pay the use tax, then report them.

My thoughts?  The state of Oklahoma will spend more tracking down those people who fail to submit Use Tax (stupid tax by the way) because of the nominal amount that most people will owe.  Since 2005 I'm guilty of not filing use tax.  Not because I wanted to cheat the system, but because I never knew about it.  But of course, you being you, you'll likely say 'ignorance is no excuse'.  I guess if OK was so concerned about it, they'd still be airing those '800 lb gorilla' commercials that they used last year.

I haven't purchased from the internet in over two years (at least that which hasn't taxed me at Tulsa/city/county/state tax rates).  Many merchants I use are doing so now.  I know of one I usually use that isn't, but as I've said, I haven't used them in over two years.

[Red Arrow]

Last I checked most middle income earners don't send their money to Switzerland.

Also, I don't grumble about it.

I must have confused you with someone else.   It's not worth my time one way or the other to look over old posts.

What I grumble about it not owning up to using tax shelters like your boy Romney (tax returns anyone)?  I love how the Republicans complain about those people who will pay 3 percent more *on that amount over $250,000* and make it their talking point when the majority of Americans believe they should be anyway (by letting the Bush tax cuts expire).

I hope you are still filing jointly if you want to use that $250,000 number.  When I checked, due to being single, that number was significantly less for people filing as single.  I think for single filers it is $125,000 but I'm not sure.  I don't make that much so I will be OK but you are starting to get into middle management levels, not just the top CEOs.

Why not make everyone pay 3% more?  For those at the bottom, paying nothing, 3% of nothing is still nothing so they won't be affected.  The point for me is that some people think that we can solve our country's financial problems just by taxing the rich.   Sorry, there just isn't enough money there to do that.  

Glad you think you know me.  Maybe you and Gas can start up a clairvoyancy business..

Edit: fixed up the quote syntax

[Hoss]

I must have confused you with someone else.   It's not worth my time one way or the other to look over old posts.

You're not like Gweed in that aspect.

I haven't complained about the lack of tax shelters.  If you can do it, then do so.  But when you run for public office you can't go around claiming 'that's private' when other candidates have released their financials.  Our current CiC has released all the way back to 2000.  Why can't Mitt?

Hell, everyone on the kooky right was demanding to see Obama's long form birth certificate.  Why is it such a travesty that the American people should ask of the financial records of the candidate who is asking us to trust him to fix the economy?

Oh, I'm divorced, so I'm filing single and 2 (technically head of household).  And I don't make nowhere near $250,000 a year.  I'm guessing most who post on here don't.