Anyone know of good price Fire sprinkler system installers.

[Red Arrow]

Well, just spoke to someone, that I am sure would know about such things,  about the possibility of getting an exception for the fire sprinkler system... said not gonna happen. 

You don't sound as though you really want to run a coffee shop or wine bar.  What would it cost to break the lease? (Rhetorical, I don't want the numbers.)  It may be worth it to chalk it up to experience.

[TheArtist]

Well, Chris and I have gone over the International Fire Codes and Tulsa Fire Codes, INCOG, etc. up and down, inside and out and for the life of us we can not find anywhere that says, that even if we change our use category, we would have to have a fire sprinkler system.  If your Retail (M) and not over 12,000 sq ft, (less than 5,000sq ft and dedicated to upholstered furniture and mattresses) store is located less than 3 stories above grade, etc.  you don't have to have a sprinkler system.  Multiple story parking garages are exempt as well (if your located at the level of exit discharge aka. on the ground floor and have ground floor exits).  

We are in the ground floor retail space in the parking garage at 6th and Boston, and our square footage is less than 3,000 sq ft.  We would be between Libby's new Vault restaurant and Boca Loca, facing the park.  

So if anyone else can find the rule and know of why we would have to have a sprinkler system, please let me know cause we can't find it. 

[heironymouspasparagus]

Well, Chris and I have gone over the International Fire Codes and Tulsa Fire Codes, INCOG, etc. up and down, inside and out and for the life of us we can not find anywhere that says, that even if we change our use category, we would have to have a fire sprinkler system.  If your Retail (M) and not over 12,000 sq ft, (less than 5,000sq ft and dedicated to upholstered furniture and mattresses) store is located less than 3 stories above grade, etc.  you don't have to have a sprinkler system.  Multiple story parking garages are exempt as well (if your located at the level of exit discharge aka. on the ground floor and have ground floor exits).  

We are in the ground floor retail space in the parking garage at 6th and Boston, and our square footage is less than 3,000 sq ft.  We would be between Libby's new Vault restaurant and Boca Loca, facing the park.  

So if anyone else can find the rule and know of why we would have to have a sprinkler system, please let me know cause we can't find it.  

Sounds like a couple hours of a lawyer's time at this point to "work with" the city could smooth the process a little.  Might be a cheap investment.  Maybe guido could recommend someone with that background (if that isn't what he does...)  ??


Have you already experienced the thrill of having to deal with the Oklahoma Tax Commission??  Sales tax permit and manufacturing permits....

That is a whole lot like an alien abduction probing without the warm fuzzy feeling at the end of it.  

[Red Arrow]

Well, Chris and I have gone over the International Fire Codes and Tulsa Fire Codes, INCOG, etc. up and down, inside and out and for the life of us we can not find anywhere that says, that even if we change our use category, we would have to have a fire sprinkler system.

Good luck.

[TheArtist]

Sounds like a couple hours of a lawyer's time at this point to "work with" the city could smooth the process a little.  Might be a cheap investment.  Maybe guido could recommend someone with that background (if that isn't what he does...)  ??


Have you already experienced the thrill of having to deal with the Oklahoma Tax Commission??  Sales tax permit and manufacturing permits....

That is a whole lot like an alien abduction probing without the warm fuzzy feeling at the end of it.  

Oklahoma Tax Commission is a walk in the park to work with compared to what I have run into with all this stuff.  At least the Oklahoma Tax Commision will talk to you and gladly help you out with any questions.  They make it easy in comparison.  They WANT your money and will do whatever it takes to smooth the way for you lol.  Apparently the city doesn't want you to start a business and will throw up as many permits, fees, procedures, inspections, lack of clear information, paperwork, regulations, can't get ahold of this person or that, let me get back to you, then get an e-mail with incomplete or non-pertinent information, can't answer that question till you fill out this form, etc.etc. in your way to make it as difficult as possible.  According to the rules I have been reading, I think you need several different permits (and there are limitations and rules like, how many permits you can have per year) just to put a sticker ad sign on your store window. Who knew?   I bet all those concert/event poster things people stick in windows of businesses that let them are illegal without a permit as well.  Little neon OPEN signs you see around... probably illegal without a permit and probably some sort of annual fees required as well.  If the rules really are as they read, I bet just about every business in downtown is in violation just with the sign/advertising ordinances alone.  

Check out section 1221 sign and advertising for some fun reading lol.

http://www.incog.org/city%20of%20tulsa%20zoning%20code/Internet%20Zoning%20Code-all%20one%20document.pdf

[Boksooner]

I stopped to take a look on my run today. Looks like a good location. I would think you could get some business from workers in the IBM building, if you go the coffee shop route.

[rdj]

We are in the ground floor retail space in the parking garage at 6th and Boston, and our square footage is less than 3,000 sq ft.  We would be between Libby's new Vault restaurant and Boca Loca, facing the park.  

The space that faces Boston or the space that faces 6th St?  Those are both sort of between La Boca Loca and "The Vault"

Which, BTW, The Vault's parking is the NE corner along with the deck that is actually adjacent to the building, correct?

[TheArtist]

It's the space facing Boston.  I am really hoping I can do the gift shop/art studio type space.

Not sure what the Vaults parking is.

A little render of what I hope to do to the front of the space.  Though the sign may have to be smaller at first.  Trying to do as much as I can at first to get things going on a tight budget.



Before and after.   Wanted to create something that was Art Deco but still modern, hip and fun.  Want to eventually have the place have a very downtown stylin, "NYC urban" feel to it.  Blue Dome area is more "grunge", which is great, but I kinda hope the "Deco District" can evolve to have more high style, cutting edge flair.  Libby's Vault should be an incredible space right in that vein.  

[rdj]

I'd love to see that garage have cool lighting along it's panels.

[Conan71]

It's the space facing Boston.  I am really hoping I can do the gift shop/art studio type space.

Not sure what the Vaults parking is.

A little render of what I hope to do to the front of the space.  Though the sign may have to be smaller at first.  Trying to do as much as I can at first to get things going on a tight budget.



Before and after.   Wanted to create something that was Art Deco but still modern, hip and fun.  Want to eventually have the place have a very downtown stylin, "NYC urban" feel to it.  Blue Dome area is more "grunge", which is great, but I kinda hope the "Deco District" can evolve to have more high style, cutting edge flair.  Libby's Vault should be an incredible space right in that vein.  

The entrance does say "gulag" now doesn't it?  The chain is a nice touch.

[mobboss]

Using the space as a tavern/bar is no easy solution either. Is the spot you've leased within 300 feet of First Presbyterian Church? if so, you would have to have it zoned as a 'restaurant with accessory use bar' (with audited 51%+ food sales) this now involves costly exhaust and make up air systems running above the buildings 5th floor roofline, the addition of grease traps in the sewer lines and the still needed fire sprinklers. Plus the fact that restaurants are a horrible way to make a living

easy working within the state/city guidlines huh?

Zach

[heironymouspasparagus]

Was just looking at the front again for a minute and thought that existing door almost looks like and could be painted to look like a 30's zoot suit vest and the chain hanging there could be a pocket watch chain (watch fob) - pocket over in the middle of the door, with top of a watch showing.  I guess it could be a bankers vest - then must be pin stripe.

Might have to weld the chain together to get it to hold it's position, and then brass/gold plate for the effect...

[TheArtist]

  I think we are good to go.  There isn't an automatic "you have to get sprinklers if you change the use" rule for all spaces.  There are exceptions.  We are under a certain sq, ft. size limit,  we will not have over 100 people (our occupancy load per the square footage to meet the requirements is about 65 and I can't see us having more than that in our little shop)  and there are no exit doors farther away than 75' from any place within the space.  There are some rules governing buildings of multiple floors, but there is an exemption for being in a parking garage and having the right exits, etc.  One gentleman from the fire marshalls office came by and looked through the space (checked to see if there were any evidence that there had ever been a sprinkler system in there before, did not find any and my impression was that that was a good thing) There are some other things but so far everyone that has looked at the layout and such and given an opinion ( not officially for the paperwork and inspections have not been completed or done yet) including some folks at the fire marshalls office are giving me the impression, that we are going go be ok on not having to have as sprinkler system.  So far so good, I am not in panic mode anymore lol.  Had some info given to the "main guy" at the city, and spoke to him on the phone.  He scared me lol.  You could tell he was a serious, no playing games, followin the rules, take no prisoners, don't even think of trying any bs or sneak anything past him for he has seen it all and dealt with all kinds of folk, kind of guy lol.       

We are working away on the space hoping to have the electricians come in this wednesday and get started fixing things up. 

[Breadburner]

The lock will be easy to change....

[TheArtist]

  Ack.  Found out today that the big old underground electric cable is caput and can't be pulled out.  Will be about another thou to just to get electricity into the shop.  In for a penny, in for a pound I suppose.

My next big concern is whether or not the drains work.  Water has not been turned on yet.  Brought some water and put that into the toilets, was an unpleasant odor coming from them, guess all the water had dried up.  But the water just sat there and didnt flow very far down the drains.  So hoping there is not something major wrong with the drains.  Can't be all completely blocked if there was some odor coming up.  We shall see.  Fun fun fun!

Then the next really big concern is the heating and air units.  Guessing the airconditioning units will have to be replaced, but can perhaps wait till spring for that.  But keeping fingers crossed that at least the heating units might work ok for a while.