TulsaNow's thoughts on Vision2

[Admin]

I realize this is only a partial list, but do you know that every proposal listed is in the city of Tulsa?  This is a county-wide sales tax, is it not?  I'm not being deliberately crass, but what's in it for the rest of us who don't live in Tulsa?  It really looks as if we're expected to ante up the money so that the city will have all the amenities.  People in the suburbs don't like to be treated as mere donors toward the greater glory of Tulsa.

Unlike Vision2025, it is not one big bucket. Each city has it's own pre-set amount with which they can spend on their city and this list is to address the city of Tulsa's bucket specifically. The County has their own priorities already and the surrounding areas have only enough to tackle a couple of small projects per city.

[sgrizzle]

Can you imagine what would happen if this were a National thought process. Yes, what wish list would be developed? Add Reagan to Mount Rushmore?

You do not go about driving the quality of living by coming up with wish lists.

Our Mayor needs to tell us what major issues need to be addressed in the next 15 years. What infrastructure needs and improvements have been identified and what might be our future problems. The way we react to our heads in the sand (the retention/detention ponds...the streets etc.) makes me wonder what process these guys have if any.

The Mayor has already released his list:
Gilcrease Expressway
Zoo
"The River" (non-specific)
Parks (also non-specific)

Tulsa already has a comprehensive plan and a capital improvement program list but there was no discussion between Mayor's office and city planning about Vision2/Planitulsa until TulsaNow brought it up.

[swake]

The Mayor has already released his list:
Gilcrease Expressway
Zoo
"The River" (non-specific)
Parks (also non-specific)

Tulsa already has a comprehensive plan and a capital improvement program list but there was no discussion between Mayor's office and city planning about Vision2/Planitulsa until TulsaNow brought it up.

I would not trust Dewey to spend $10 wisely

[sgrizzle]

I would not trust Dewey to spend $10 wisely

I'm sure he could find a really good deal on a Keytar.

[Red Arrow]

You should consider an all day pass for the circulator system.

[Red Arrow]

I wanted a real railed trolley. At about $40 million a mile it didn't make the list. Go figure!

That seems a lot higher than the cost/mile I have seen for other cities but my numbers may be a bit old.

[AquaMan]

I think that was based on OKC"s two mile, $80 million trolley line. I have yet to find time to research their project.

[Red Arrow]

I think that was based on OKC"s two mile, $80 million trolley line. I have yet to find time to research their project.

A short route will have that problem since the trolley maintenance and storage barn and the trolleys cost the same regardless of the length of the tracks.  At least that is true up to the point where more trolleys and a bigger barn are needed.

[RecycleMichael]

I am tired of all the vision talk. What aboout the other senses? Are hearing, touching, smelling and tasting just not good enough?

[sgrizzle]

I am tired of all the vision talk. What aboout the other senses? Are hearing, touching, smelling and tasting just not good enough?

I think this initiative smells funny.

[JCnOwasso]

I'm sure he could find a really good deal on a Keytar.

Based on his choice of a Maserati Quattroporte, I wouldn't even trust him to do that.  The only choice that would have been worse is the Porsche Panamera...

[nathanm]

That seems a lot higher than the cost/mile I have seen for other cities but my numbers may be a bit old.

Track itself cost Portland around $20 million a mile when construction pricing was higher. I think their all-in was closer to $40 million per mile on the first line, though. They got there the same way OKC did. Their further construction has been much cheaper since that was already paid for. I can easily think of at least 10 good miles of track, but I can't figure out how we're going to get $250-300 million to do it when we have so many other, pressing, needs.

The thing is that a well used trolley system would take some pressure off the budget in other places by getting cars off the roads, but it would take a lot more money than Tulsans are willing to spend on anything, much less some "hippie" trolley smile. Half the town nearly lost its smile over the BOk Center, after all, and that's a generally accepted use of municipal funds, even in this part of the country.

[Townsend]

$129,000,000 is in the maps3 for the streetcar.

They're using it for the initial loop and maintenance, etc.  Any funds left over will be used to expand the miles.

http://issuu.com/cityofokc/docs/maps3impplan/13

[swake]

I'm sure he could find a really good deal on a Keytar.

He doesn't need a Keytar, he needs a cell phone that isn't so fire-prone.

[AquaMan]

$129,000,000 is in the maps3 for the streetcar.

They're using it for the initial loop and maintenance, etc.  Any funds left over will be used to expand the miles.

http://issuu.com/cityofokc/docs/maps3impplan/13

That's a little misleading. The street cars themselves (4,000,000) and the rail amount to $23,000,000. The bulk of the cost is in land acquisition and construction. Both one time costs. The total cost includes maintenance buildings, 6-8 miles of track and engineering studies.

The real cost per mile to start up is about 16,000,000 per mile but the ongoing maintenance and operational costs are lower than other forms of mass transit. As we used to say in the day, "that's stud".