Mitt Romney... 47 percent will vote for Obama "no matter what"

[Gaspar]

I'm going to step away from this thread and let you guys continue to bloviate.

Lets see where this goes over the next few weeks. 

I don't think his comments are having the effect the left was hoping for.

[TheArtist]

What he said was 100% accurate though.  47% of the people have grown to be dependent on government, and will not likely vote for a candidate who promises to end that dependence.

 First off, I would bet that a very large portion of that 47% are Republicans  (I wonder what the actual percentage is).  Secondly, yes they would vote for a candidate who promises to end that dependence.  

I run into people here in Oklahoma all the time who are rabidly anti-Obama and anti-government.... who are very dependent on the government and yes, quite counterintuitively, would vote Republican.  I hear stories, from someone I know who works at a clinic for poor people (that is paid for mostly by federal funding) about the people he runs into all the time who rail about Obama, and then complain about having to pay $4 for a prescription, or $10 for an exam, etc. (that the rest of us would pay hundreds, sometimes thousands of dollars for)  then turn right around and again start complaining about Obama and hating the Democrats.  I met someone a while back who worked for the Federal Government in DC, was visiting Tulsa and he asked me why Oklahoma was so conservative when so many in this state were on foodstamps?  Many of the most conservative people I meet would be out on the streets or dead without government assistance (if they did not change their habits or circumstances), yet want government to be cut?  They may be right in their "want", but I think its wrong for someone to assume that just because people do not pay taxes and or are on the government dole, that they are automatically Obama supporters.  That may be the message the Republicans want to put out there, but it's wrong from what I can tell.

 

[Red Arrow]

What difference does it make in the context of this discussion where Romney cherry picked a single year's tax statistics to claim that 47% of the country is dependent on the government? Like their circumstances are apparently irrelevant to Romney (and Gassy), the circumstances of high income people that allow them to get away with paying zero income tax is equally irrelevant. Can't have it both ways.

So you don't know and are making the whole thing up.

[Red Arrow]

 First off, I would bet that a very large portion of that 47% are Republicans  (I wonder what the actual percentage is).

I can see how you would believe that living in Oklahoma but how does that fit with the overall US?

[carltonplace]

And surprisingly enough, that number (though it changes whenever it's convenient for your argument) speaks more to the level of poverty in this country since that 47% or 45% or 42% or 40% don't have enough income to owe any federal taxes. You imply that they're freeloading on the taxpayers.  I suggest you spend a month or two living on food stamps and government cheese.

Current electoral vote forecast:305/232

That number also includes the retired, the very young (children) and the Armed Services. I guess this group of losers needs to pay their fair share in Mitt and Guido's world.

[Gaspar]

That number also includes the retired, the very young (children) and the Armed Services. I guess this group of losers needs to pay their fair share in Mitt and Guido's world.

No, it's based on tax payers, and actually it is inaccurate now.  The number is actually closer to 49%. 
The numbers are based on the fact that currently 49% of tax payers carry no tax liability on their income taxes. 

[nathanm]

So you don't know and are making the whole thing up.

Nope, I didn't make it up. You should know by now that I don't make things up. I stand by my question of the relevance of how it is they came to pay no tax despite having positive income greater than $200,000 in 2009 in the context of a discussion about Romney saying that those who pay no income tax are dependent on the government.

It's actually mildly interesting, but it's utterly irrelevant.

You're more than welcome to look at the latest SOI release if you want to verify my figures. I should note that the number I supplied is just the rounded increase in that category in 2009 relative to prior years.

[Townsend]

The BBC described Romney's answers having to do with this as "long and rambling".  Thinking the UK is still not a big fan.

They also stated he was grouping all democrats as the 47%. 

[Teatownclown]

The Real Romney Captured on Tape Turns Out to Be a Sneering Plutocrat
By Jonathan Chait
New York Magazine


Presidential campaigns wallow so tediously in pseudo-events and manufactured outrage that our senses can be numbed to the appearance of something genuinely momentous. Mitt Romney's secretly recorded comments at a fund-raiser are such an event — they reveal something vital about Romney, and they disqualify his claim to the presidency.

To think of Romney's leaked discourse as a "gaffe" grossly misdescribes its importance. Indeed the comments' direct impact on the outcome of the election will probably be small. Romney repeated the wildly misleading but increasingly popular conservative talking point that 47 percent of Americans pay no income taxes. The federal income tax is, by design, one of the most progressive elements of the American tax system, but well over 80 percent of non-retired adults pay federal taxes. But most people hear "income taxes" and think "taxes," which is why the trick of using one phrase to make audiences think of the other is a standard GOP trick when discussing taxes. For that very reason, it won't strike many voters as an insult: Most people who don't pay income taxes do pay other taxes, and fail to distinguish between them, and thus don't consider themselves among the 47 percent scorned by Romney.

Instead the video exposes an authentic Romney as a far more sinister character than I had imagined. Here is the sneering plutocrat, fully in thrall to a series of pernicious myths that are at the heart of the mania that has seized his party. He believes that market incomes in the United States are a perfect reflection of merit. Far from seeing his own privileged upbringing as the private-school educated son of an auto executive-turned-governor as an obvious refutation of that belief, Romney cites his own life, preposterously, as a confirmation of it. ("I have inherited nothing. Everything I earned I earned the old fashioned way.")

(snip)

The revelations in this video come to me as a genuine shock. I have never hated Romney. I presumed his ideological makeover since he set out to run for president was largely phony, even if he was now committed to carry through with it, and to whatever extent he'd come to believe his own lines, he was oblivious or naïve about the damage he would inflict upon the poor, sick, and vulnerable. It seems unavoidable now to conclude that Romney's embrace of Paul Ryanism is born of actual contempt for the looters and moochers, a class war on behalf of his own class.

The rest: http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/09/real-romney-is-a-sneering-plutocrat.html

Read the whole thing. It is perfect. Says it all, and has a bunch of helpful links that blow Mitt's "47% moocher" argument straight over the frickin' moon.

[Conan71]

I wonder why they paid no taxes?

The current tax system is abhorrent.  Perhaps we can agree that it needs to be "reformed"?

Liberals like the word reform don't they?

6,000 pages of loopholes, advantages, layers, and incomprehensible complexity make for an uneven playing field for everyone.

Yet no one seems to challenge the smoke and mirrors aspect of Democrats not doing one damn thing about revamping the tax code.  Instead, they promote this meme that everyone else's opportunity is being stolen by the wealthiest.  They are protecting their rich donors every bit as much as the Republicans do.

[carltonplace]

No, it's based on tax payers, and actually it is inaccurate now.  The number is actually closer to 49%. 
The numbers are based on the fact that currently 49% of tax payers carry no tax liability on their income taxes. 

Romney said "47% of all Americans" he did not say "47% of all potential tax payers"

"And so my job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

-Mitt Romney

[Conan71]

Bottom line is the only people who are pissed off about this wouldn't have voted for Romney in the first place.  It's the usual suspects on here and in the media calling him out.  Each supposed gaffe from the Romney campaign is supposedly the one that killed his campaign.  I also like the electoral vote predictions at this point, is that supposed to dissuade Romney supporters from voting?  Good luck with that.

Oh and Ruf, a little PWI last night?

[carltonplace]

Yet no one seems to challenge the smoke and mirrors aspect of Democrats not doing one damn thing about revamping the tax code.  Instead, they promote this meme that everyone else's opportunity is being stolen by the wealthiest.  They are protecting their rich donors every bit as much as the Republicans do.

most American's agree that the tax code should be "reformed", even among the 47% of ALL Americans that are deadbeats and that refuse to take care of themselves.

You guys are wrong to try to sugar coat this. He actually thinks that half of the population of Americans that he wants to preside over are worthless and don't contribute.

[Townsend]

It's the usual suspects on here and in the media calling him out. 

Motherjones is releasing the rest of the videos this eve according to Slate.

NPR 47% graphic:



A few Twitter statements within the last 30 minutes:

Politico:  Joe Biden, on the ropeline in Ottumwa, on the Mitt Romney 47% video: "I'll let his words speak for themselves."

Slate:  You know who often doesn't pay taxes, Mitt: retirees and students.

CNN:  Video threatens Romney campaign: Seven weeks before voters decide on their next president

Drudge:  Florida farmhand arrested for sex with miniature donkey...(Republican switching party apparently)

USA Today:  Will Romney's 47% comment make a difference in the election?

MSNBC:  Conservative response to Romney's fundraiser remarks mixed

Time:  Has Mitt Romney's luck run out?

Daily Beast:  Why Mitt is 100% wrong about the 47%

[RecycleMichael]

Drudge:  Florida farmhand arrested for sex with miniature donkey...(Republican switching party apparently)

Gotta be against some law in Florida.