Ryan blows it durring the debate. . .

[Conan71]

Not I sir.  I found it funny to see an old man kicking a young liar in the junk so many times.

Speaking of lies, did you catch where Biden claimed he didn't vote to put the two wars on a credit card? 

[nathanm]

Speaking of lies, did you catch where Biden claimed he didn't vote to put the two wars on a credit card?  

One would assume that he was referring to his record against the Bush Tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 and Part D, not his votes to authorize war.

If you're actually an independent, why do you give such credulity to Rove's spin?

[Conan71]

One would assume that he was referring to his record against the Bush Tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 and Part D, not his votes to authorize war.

If you're actually an independent, why do you give such credulity to Rove's spin?

I've not heard nor seen anything by Rove after the debate.  Rather you are the one who is spinning.  I hope you are sitting down.

He's saying he voted against two wars, the prescription drug plan and the tax cuts.  He's correct on the drug plan and tax cuts, but he most definitely voted for the two wars.  No need to parse it Nate, you won't bait me in.  He flat out lied.

Here's what Biden said:

"By the way, they talk about this great recession like it fell out of the sky–like, 'Oh my goodness, where did it come from?'" Biden said. "It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card, at the same time, put a prescription drug plan on the credit card, a trillion dollar tax cut for the very wealthy."

"I was there, I voted against them," Biden continued. "I said, no, we can't afford that."

Then Sen. Biden voted for the Afghanistan resolution on Sept. 14, 2001 which authorized "the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States."

And on Oct. 11, 2002, Biden voted for a resolution authorizing unilateral military action in Iraq, according to the Washington Post.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/biden-insinuates-he-didnt-vote-afghanistan-iraq-wars_654253.html

[Teatownclown]

If you've missed the playoffs for this bs then I feel for you.

This is a reminder that Msr. Coulter is on Bill Maher tonight....after the Yanks go down (hoping)....how about those Giants? Can the cards beat DC?

BEAT TEXASS!

Neil Young is coming to the Civic Center Sunday! Rock and Roll will never die!

[nathanm]

I've not heard nor seen anything by Rove after the debate.  Rather you are the one who is spinning.  I hope you are sitting down.

He's saying he voted against two wars, the prescription drug plan and the tax cuts.  He's correct on the drug plan and tax cuts, but he most definitely voted for the two wars.  No need to parse it Nate, you won't bait me in.  He flat out lied.

Let's try that again. Biden said, as you quoted:

It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card

Biden voted to put zero wars "on a credit card". He voted for two wars, one of which I disagreed with at the time. Both interpretations are at least somewhat reasonable, but it's unreasonable to call someone a liar when their words can be interpreted in a way that is in fact true. Had Biden voted for the tax cuts or left out the "on a credit card" bit, it would indeed be an outright lie in any reasonable interpretation of his words.

[nathanm]

Just an update based on the polling averages. If you ASSume that any candidate polling on at least 51% in a state will win that state come November, Obama is presently at 269 EVs and Romney at 206 EVs. If Romney sweeps the states within that margin, he will also end up with 269 EVs. If the debates don't move the needle further, it will be a very contentious winter.

[Red Arrow]

#10: That the Taliban need refuge in Afghanistan. Ever since we invaded, the Taliban have been using the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (nominally Pakistani territory) as a base, crossing the Afghan border with impunity. Ryan managed to have quite the discussion about "fighting seasons" without figuring that one out.
This isn't numbered because it's just dumb and not an actual lie: Ryan thinks that our enemies will somehow be confused into not returning to Afghanistan as he claims they will if we simply don't preannounce a date for withdrawal from Afghanistan. Does he think they'll just forget?

You and I understand the fighting seasons concept differently.  I understood it to mean that we should get out while the Taliban are less likely to attack due to the snow etc.  That would give the last of our guys to get out a better chance of not getting killed due to low US troop numbers.  After that, we're gone and it doesn't matter (directly) to our troops if the Taliban comes back.

[Red Arrow]

Not I sir.  I found it funny to see an old man liar kicking a young liar in the junk so many times.

I would have high lighted the correction in red but since you like blue so much, I decided to be nice.

[Red Arrow]

Oh, and I was just reminded of another Ryan lie: Uranium enriching centrifuges don't spin faster to enrich more uranium. The speed is dictated by the atomic weight of the materials being separated. Not being a nuclear engineer, I could be wrong, but that's what I recall from the Stuxnet discussion a while back.

I doubt Ryan is a nuclear engineer either.  I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say he used that statement as a metaphor for speeding up the process.  You would have given Biden the same benefit had Biden said something like that.

[Red Arrow]

#4: Neither can be used to make a bomb without further processing which requires enough energy use to be very obvious to the intelligence community.

Is this the same intelligence community that told the "administration" that the mess in Libya was a spontaneous protest according to Biden?  Is this the same intelligence community that gave us the war in Iraq?

#5: Ryan claimed that the jobs picture is moving in the wrong direction. When Obama took office, more than 700,000 people a month were losing their jobs. Now month in and month out over 100,000 people gain employment. That is the correct direction.

Ryan claimed that the growth was slowing.  (Less new jobs last month than the month before for a few months.  I haven't checked for myself as I'm sure you will post 27 charts showing otherwise if you can.)  Think in rates of change, not just the number of jobs.

Moreover, by simply removing the cap on SS contributions, its solvency would be ensured out to 2080 or more. (and rich people would get more bennies in exchange..win win)

Rich people will not benefit in proportion to the increase in their payments.  They cannot or the lower and middle economic classes will not benefit.  Win/Not lose quite so much.  I haven't seen the numbers one way or the other to prove that removing the cap alone will actually provide enough money by taxing the 1% to provide for the 99%.  There's a LOT of people out there that aren't reaching the cap already.

[nathanm]

I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say he used that statement as a metaphor for speeding up the process. 

Ok. We'll call it a metaphor. It's also untrue as best I can tell, but it's not an outright misstatement of fact if indeed it was intended metaphorically.

You would have given Biden the same benefit had Biden said something like that.

I don't think so, but maybe. We do all have biases, no matter how much we try to examine and purge them.

As for your second post:

1) If you don't believe the intelligence community, there's not any evidence of malintent on Iran's part. The Ayatollahs have long claimed to be against nuclear weaponry and even Ahmadinejad recently claimed the program was entirely peaceful.

2) Ok, so he's against the seasonality in employment. Good to know he likes to tilt at windmills.

3) Sure they can, thanks to the baby boomer bulge dying off before the current wealthy begin drawing benefits. The wealthy who are already close to retirement would not pay in enough to increase their benefits so much as to offset the increased inflow. Also, Ryan stated last night that the R-R ticket is in favor of means testing anyway. I'm not, but by their standard there should be no problem reducing benefits as necessary for high income people. Alternatively, we could do what Obamacare did for the Medicare portion and apply it to capital gains income as well.

[Hoss]

You pretty much know the right thinks you've beaten them up when you get Fox guys like Bolling to say Biden is a "condescending, smug, morally and intellectually bankrupt man"

Cripes!

[nathanm]

You pretty much know the right thinks you've beaten them up when you get Fox guys like Bolling to say Biden is a "condescending, smug, morally and intellectually bankrupt man"

I'm probably repeating itself, but it is funny how Romney was not seen as condescending and smug despite his interrupting cow routine during the first debate. I think it's more likely that the people on Fox are morally and intellectually bankrupt.

[Red Arrow]

I'm probably repeating itself, but it is funny how Romney was not seen as condescending and smug despite his interrupting cow routine during the first debate. I think it's more likely that the people on Fox are morally and intellectually bankrupt.

I expect some interrupting, it's a political debate.  I do think Biden took the interruptions to the whole next level.  He reminded me of a few people I know that when the conversation isn't going their way, they stop listening, talk continuously and, if necessary, raise their voice to drown out what they don't want to hear.  At that time, there is no conversation.  I walk away.

The Democratic party has worked tirelessly to paint Romney as  a rich guy who cannot relate to the average guy.  I guess a little condescension from him is expected.  The fact that there wasn't more of it was a plus for Romney.  Biden is supposed to be a common Joe.  Condescension from him sticks out like (whatever unfavorable analogy you want).  A smile from Romney, even if it was forced, is not the same as a blatant contempt smirk and outright laughter.  Biden did way too much of both.

[Red Arrow]

1) If you don't believe the intelligence community, there's not any evidence of malintent on Iran's part. The Ayatollahs have long claimed to be against nuclear weaponry and even Ahmadinejad recently claimed the program was entirely peaceful.

I don't think we need to Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran.  (Old enough to remember that take on Barbara Ann by the Beach Boys and the Regents before them?)

I do not trust the Iranians.  Period.