Ryan blows it durring the debate. . .

[Conan71]

Let's try that again. Biden said, as you quoted:

Biden voted to put zero wars "on a credit card". He voted for two wars, one of which I disagreed with at the time. Both interpretations are at least somewhat reasonable, but it's unreasonable to call someone a liar when their words can be interpreted in a way that is in fact true. Had Biden voted for the tax cuts or left out the "on a credit card" bit, it would indeed be an outright lie in any reasonable interpretation of his words.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I think it's more likely that the people on Fox are morally and intellectually bankrupt.

That's been general knowledge for many years.

[nathanm]

A smile from Romney, even if it was forced, is not the same as a blatant contempt smirk and outright laughter.  Biden did way too much of both.

At least Biden was only showing contempt for Ryan. Ryan was showing contempt for the American people by repeatedly lying to us. Looking like a cute lost puppy doesn't make that any more OK.

[Red Arrow]

At least Biden was only showing contempt for Ryan.

I disagree.  I think Biden was being less than truthful too.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Ok...so Ryan and Romney agree completely with the 2014 withdrawal timeframe for Afghanistan.  Ryan said so.

But to set a timeframe is a huge mistake.  Ryan also said so.

No wonder they seem so schizoid....they are!

[nathanm]

I think Biden was being less than truthful too.

You think or you know? Even under the assumption that he stated that he did not vote for the war resolutions, I'm having a hard time coming up with anything else. I guess I'll go through the transcript and see if there's anything else that jumps out at me...

Edited to add: Ok, this is the first thing that jumped out at me (other than Biden not mentioning Stuxnet, which destroyed most of their centrifuges before being discovered):

These people are my mom and dad — the people I grew up with, my neighbors. They pay more effective tax than Governor Romney pays in his federal income tax. They are elderly people who in fact are living off of Social Security.

He probably meant to say "tax rate," but didn't, so that's probably a lie unless the people he grew up with have very high wage income.

I will continue to look.

Edited again to add: Darn it, found another Ryan lie. He said "The economy is barely limping along. It's growing a[t] 1.3 percent." GDP actually grew over 2% in the past year (as of the latest GDP number, Q2), in inflation-adjusted terms.

Edited again to add: smile, another Ryan lie: "On two occasions we — we — we advocated for constituents who were applying for grants. That's what we do."

It was actually at least four, it turns out. I'll keep trying.

Edited yet again to add: love, yet another Ryan lie: "Their own actuary from the administration came to Congress and said one out of six hospitals and nursing homes are going to go out of business as a result of this."

Nope. He actually said that one in six would become unprofitable if and only if they failed to reduce administrative costs and improve productivity (the productivity increases actually trigger payments in excess of the new baseline) as required by PPACA, which may or may not be achievable. And it was a memo.

Personally, I think it's good to get them to at least try harder. There are enough PE deals involving buying hospitals that I'm more than a little skeptical here. PE guys do a lot of dumb things, but they're usually not stupid enough to get into a business where they think they can't make money.

Edited again to add: Ah, found one, although some argue Biden misspoke:

The two budgets the congressman introduced have eviscerated all the things that the middle class cares about. It is (inaudible) he will knock 19 million people off of Medicare. It will kick 200,000 children off of early education. It will eliminate the tax credit people have to be able to send their children to college. It cuts education by $450 billion.

The education cuts are actually only $4.5 billion, and all those numbers presume that Ryan's discretionary spending cuts will be across-the-board cuts, which Romney has stated he will not do. That said, neither Romney or Ryan will provide enough detail to figure out exactly what they'll cut so it is as good an estimate as is available. I guess that's one way to make the Romneymeter look better than the Obamameter.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Suppose we DID have privatized Social Security.  And in 2000, your privatized Social Security bought GM - stable investment, right?  That was the year it peaked at $94.63.

Fast forward ten years - 2010.  Value of that privatized Social Security account....  $ 0.

Yeah, now there's a step up for individuals.  But the executives STILL got their bonuses through out the entire process.  What's good for GM is good for America...  I'll leave it as exercise to see who said that.  (Hint:  Michael Moore has almost prescient insights.)

[heironymouspasparagus]

Ryan said he doesn't believe "unelected" judges should have anything to say about legislative actions - only "elected" representatives.  In spite of the FACT that the Constitution DEFINES it that way....

[heironymouspasparagus]

Red,

I guess if I can't use the same thought that others think regarding batteries in cars, how about Romney stealing a line from a movie?  Is that equally 'wrong'??  Can I hear a little moral indignation here?

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201210/friday-night-lights-director-mitt-romney-dont-steal-our-phrase

[nathanm]

And one last nugget for the day, thanks go to David Frum for linking it:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-12/the-final-word-on-mitt-romney-s-tax-plan.html

There you have the six "studies" on which the Romney campaign has based its defense of Romney's tax plan. Individually and collectively they fail the task.

Read the whole article to get the details on how/why the reports don't say what Ryan said they do.

Also, anybody know where Politifact got this?

Nordstrom was seeking more forces for the embassy mission nationally, not exclusively Benghazi. In fact, the number of guards at the Benghazi consulate when the attack occurred was at or near the number Nordstrom said were needed for that site.

[RecycleMichael]

...how about Romney stealing a line from a movie? 

Four years ago Obama stole the line "yes we can" from the TV show Bob the Builder.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Four years ago Obama stole the line "yes we can" from the TV show Bob the Builder.

Yep.  Everyone does it.  I do it.  You do it.  Everyone does it.  Somewhere, sometime, very soon, people with somewhat shared experiences and backgrounds will think similar thoughts.  And sometimes exactly opposite thoughts - Red's comments about battery versus engine oil.

Even though we (he and I) share extensive backgrounds working on automotive equipment for decades, the first thing I thought of was the battery/electric motor in a Tesla form the propulsion system.  They are inextricably linked as one entity.  I probably go to that due to more electrical background.  To me the differentiation comes from the fact that the electric motor can only use electrons.  He got to propulsion separate from 'fuel' most likely based on his mechanical background - fuel can be gasoline, diesel, alcohol, etc.  There is somewhat more separation from the actual motor from the fuel.  Many look at it his way...many look at it my way.


 

[nathanm]

I expect some interrupting, it's a political debate.  I do think Biden took the interruptions to the whole next level.

The transcript doesn't bear out the idea that Biden interrupted significantly more than Ryan did, aside perhaps from during the exchange on Medicare. He did emote more than some would deem appropriate, however.

[Red Arrow]

The transcript doesn't bear out the idea that Biden interrupted significantly more than Ryan did, aside perhaps from during the exchange on Medicare. He did emote more than some would deem appropriate, however.

I'm not going to spend the time to get and read the transcript.  I watched it live.

[nathanm]

I'm not going to spend the time to get and read the transcript.  I watched it live.

With some talking head yammering in your ear about their impressions, if you're like most people.