Michigan Newest Right to Work State

[guido911]

And, yes, the unions collectively wet themselves over it.

http://www.thetimesherald.com/interactive/article/20121206/NEWS05/312060030/State-Senate-passes-right-work-legislation-22-16?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|&nclick_check=1

[Gaspar]

It'll never happen.  That state is a write-off.  They will use the judicial to override the legislature.  There is simply too much dependency in that state.

[guido911]

Here ya go. Passing right to work akin to Pearl Harbor.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jack-coleman/2012/12/10/union-official-compares-gop-push-right-work-law-mich-attack-pearl-harb

[Teatownclown]

Here ya go. Passing right to work akin to Pearl Harbor.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jack-coleman/2012/12/10/union-official-compares-gop-push-right-work-law-mich-attack-pearl-harb

You know this Gov. changed his tune after the recent election.

Pearl Harbor was a symbol of America's integrity and determination. I think it's wrong to compare. After all, this low down Governor lied. He has no integrity. He's just like the jap's sneak attack.

We're talking about the original Union State here....

[Gaspar]

You know this Gov. changed his tune after the recent election.

Pearl Harbor was a symbol of America's integrity and determination. I think it's wrong to compare. After all, this low down Governor lied. He has no integrity. He's just like the jap's sneak attack.

We're talking about the original Union State here....

We don't use the term "jap."  They prefer to be called the Japanese.

It seems he was doing exactly what he said he would do in the election.  The people overwhelmingly supported him.  The majority of folks in Michigan want jobs.  The unions are willing to settle for fewer jobs and higher unemployment just to secure their base.  Right to work opens all kinds of doors to workers and may avoid places like Detroit becoming a Hooverville Obamaville. Either way, I still believe that the Unions will win through the judicial system.

The premise of their the argument put forth in the media is also incorrect.  I was watching Morning Joe at the gym this morning and they kept bringing up "taking away collective bargaining rights."  This has nothing to do with taking away collective bargaining.  Just like in every other Right to Work state, unions still have the same bargaining rights, people simply have the choice as to whether to join a union, quit a union (if they are not performing), or join another union if there is a better option.  The tactic of forced union membership is removed, and corporations have the right to hire non-union labor.  It takes power away from Unions and gives it to workers.  It has nothing to do with collective bargaining.

[Teatownclown]

btw, every WWII vet I ever met called them Japs. I wouldn't use the term myself today, but I use it in honor of the greatest generation.

[Townsend]

I'm surprised this wasn't brought to a vote for the general populous if they believe it's the right way for the state to go.

[Red Arrow]

I'm surprised this wasn't brought to a vote for the general populous if they believe it's the right way for the state to go.

So don't you believe in a representative form of government?  Does everything important need to go to a vote by the general populace?

[Red Arrow]

btw, every WWII vet I ever met called them Japs. I wouldn't use the term myself today, but I use it in honor of the greatest generation.

There were also a lot of other derogatory terms used in WWII that most members of the greatest generation no longer use.  I don't believe you give the greatest generation any honor by using any of those terms.

[Hoss]

So don't you believe in a representative form of government?  Does everything important need to go to a vote by the general populace?

Didn't Oklahoma vote on it?  Does that invalidate the point then?

[Townsend]

So don't you believe in a representative form of government?  Does everything important need to go to a vote by the general populace?

You forget, I live in Oklahoma.

I'm used to a form of representative government that represents other entities, not me.

[Red Arrow]

Didn't Oklahoma vote on it?  Does that invalidate the point then?

I believe you have posted enough examples of how you think Oklahoma does enough things wrong to invalidate your point above.

[RecycleMichael]

I have never been a member of a union, but I do support the concept of unions.

I believe that workers should be allowed as a group to hire someone on their behalf to speak with management. If enough of them feel this way, there is a obviously a problem and workers should have some rights. Think of it as though they are hiring an attorney on retainer to look after one of the most important things in their life, their job.

I am sickened by the behavior of some union members however. The carpenters union protests in front of the hospital, TU, the Mayo Hotel, are trying to intimidate jobs their way and are obnoxious. I see red every time the police union demands more pay and takes the city to court and when the fire department goes door to door in official looking shirts to campaign against any elected official who opposes their pay raises.

My favorite unneeded union is the Major League baseball players union. Each player already has an agent to get their client the maximum salary. I assume the union negotiates the minimum salary.  

[Red Arrow]

You forget, I live in Oklahoma.

I'm used to a form of representative government that represents other entities, not me.

I understand.  I kind of feel the same way about the Federal Government.

[Ed W]

I have never been a member of a union, but I do support the concept of unions.

I believe that workers should be allowed as a group to hire someone on their behalf to speak with management. If enough of them feel this way, there is a obviously a problem and workers should have some rights....

My favorite unneeded union is the Major League baseball players union. Each player already has an agent to get their client the maximum salary. I assume the union negotiates the minimum salary.  

A couple of points.  The Michigan RTW law is part of an appropriation bill, and according to their laws, appropriation bills cannot go to a popular vote.

Back when I was a shop steward, a more experienced one told me that the union existed to protect the dumbest SOB who walked through the gate.  And that was true...sort of.  I found myself defending people whose actions were indefensible, primarily attendance problems.  When the company accumulated enough absentee days against a worker, a worker who'd dug himself into a hole in the first place, the chances of keeping his job were about nil.  They had ample opportunity to change their behavior, yet chose not to do so.  You can't defend them.  It's just going through the motions.

But there's the management end to consider also.  Who hasn't worked for a supervisor who was incompetent, an alcoholic, played favorites, or capricious?  I've had the my-way-or-the-highway types who are too common everywhere.  In one instance, a supervisor pressured a tech to do something he knew was against federal regulations, but the supervisor wanted the part out the door.  Understand this - I can be fined or jailed for violation of the FARs, so I take the job seriously.  My co-worker was threatened with disciplinary action if he did not comply.  I advised him to agree to do the job provided the supervisor gave him explicit written instructions.  The supervisor immediately backed down because he knew his butt would be on the line.

So unionization works both ways.  Yes, there are abuses by union members, and yes, there are abuses by management.  If a company has a comprehensive employee policy and applies it fairly, there's no need for a union.  I worked in a place like that and it actually worked out well.  But the problem lies in our own human natures.  There's always going to be someone who figures out how to game the system for his own benefit.  It may be a lazy worker or it may be an ambitious, power-hungry manager.  I think unions help to level the playing field, but in Michigan, the field is obviously tilting toward management.  While that may bring them short term gains, it may also contain the seeds of their eventual downfall as workers and unions react.