Michigan Newest Right to Work State

[DolfanBob]

I just looked up the 23 States that are Right to Work States. Looks like a bunch of them Goody two Shoe Republicans States. No wonder Michigan is p*ssed.

[Ed W]

What about those other 'unions' like the state bar association, realtors associations, the AMA, the ADA, etc?  It seems to me that if the state can forbid a traditional union from having a closed shop and mandatory dues, the same could be said of these other unions.  If someone graduates from med school or law school, they should be able to simply go to work without being forced into one of these organizations. 

[Gaspar]

What about those other 'unions' like the state bar association, realtors associations, the AMA, the ADA, etc?  It seems to me that if the state can forbid a traditional union from having a closed shop and mandatory dues, the same could be said of these other unions.  If someone graduates from med school or law school, they should be able to simply go to work without being forced into one of these organizations. 

Doctors do not have to join the AMA, and it is not a provision of an employer or the state that a physician be a member.  In fact, only about 30% of doctors are members of the club. As for law, states choose whether to have a unified or voluntary bar association to police and regulate the practice of law.  Vermont, Maine, New York, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Delaware, Massachusetts, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Tennessee, Arkansas, Kansas, and Colorado do not require that you be a member to practice law.

In all of the above cases, the various professional organizations are not involved in the salary/wage negotiations between the individual and his/her employeer/client.  Additionally they do not inhibit or restrict the rights of individuals from entering the workforce. 

The same point could be made for "buyers groups."  I am a member of 3 different buyer's groups that negotiate prices for their members and screen venders for professional credentials.  They do not restrict members from purchasing outside of the group though.

[Hoss]

I believe you have posted enough examples of how you think Oklahoma does enough things wrong to invalidate your point above.

What?  That Oklahoma voted on it?  How is that invalid?

[Red Arrow]

What?  That Oklahoma voted on it?  How is that invalid?

Didn't Oklahoma vote on it?  Does that invalidate the point then?

You had a 50/50 chance and blew it.

Your previous contempt for the Oklahoma legislature invalidates your point that since Oklahoma voted on "it" that it must be the proper way to handle "Right to Work".

Nice spin attempt.  Too bad you were low and turning final. 

[Townsend]

Your previous contempt for the Oklahoma legislature invalidates your point that since Oklahoma voted on "it" that it must be the proper way to handle "Right to Work".

I hold a large quantity of contempt for the Oklahoma legislature.  I bet there are more of us than there are of people who don't.   Even those voted in were most likely done with reluctance from many of their constituents.

"Well it's him/her or that rock with the googly eyes glued on.  Guess I'll vote for him/her..."

Weeks later they regret not choosing ol' Googly.

[Hoss]

You had a 50/50 chance and blew it.

Your previous contempt for the Oklahoma legislature invalidates your point that since Oklahoma voted on "it" that it must be the proper way to handle "Right to Work".

Nice spin attempt.  Too bad you were low and turning final.  

Too bad most of your spin attempts drive the nosegear into the runway.

How about the bill keeping human fetuses from being used in food stuffs.  Yeah, that's gonna ring true as a real beacon of intelligence.

Sharia Law ban that we passed?  Yep, we for sure are gonna have to worry about that damned ole' Sharia Law.

Oklahoma...land where Fox News seems to be the source for documentaries for over half the population.  Glad I'm not one of 'em.

[Teatownclown]

It seems he was doing exactly what he said he would do in the election.  The people overwhelmingly supported him.  

That scumbag Snyder campaigned on a promise not to love mess with the labor laws, which caused a bunch of independents to vote for him. The Detroit Free Press endorsed him as a result, but are now saying, in a front page op-ed on Monday, that he betrayed their trust.

[Red Arrow]

Too bad most of your spin attempts drive the nosegear into the runway.

I'm sorry to see that you are not feeling well.   Try again when you are feeling better.   

[Hoss]

I'm sorry to see that you are not feeling well.   Try again when you are feeling better.  

Pretty weak sauce you have there.

[Red Arrow]

Pretty weak sauce you have there.

Really?  Is that all you can come up with?

Back to being on subject and going back a few posts, please explain why with all the stupid things the Oklahoma legislature has done that you appear to think Michigan should have followed our example of letting the people vote for Right to Work.  I actually agree that it may have been a legitimate thing to do but you prefaced its legitimacy with the actions of the Oklahoma legislature.

Townsend:

I'm surprised this wasn't brought to a vote for the general populous if they believe it's the right way for the state to go.

Me:

So don't you believe in a representative form of government?  Does everything important need to go to a vote by the general populace?

You:

Didn't Oklahoma vote on it?  Does that invalidate the point then?

[Hoss]

Really?  Is that all you can come up with?

Back to being on subject and going back a few posts, please explain why with all the stupid things the Oklahoma legislature has done that you appear to think Michigan should have followed our example of letting the people vote for Right to Work.  I actually agree that it may have been a legitimate thing to do but you prefaced its legitimacy with the actions of the Oklahoma legislature.

Townsend:
Me:
You:

You are obviously not going to be swayed.  You're a little like a couple of my crazy uncles.  You say stuff just to get attention.  Or to get the last word.  IMO of course.

However, you will, of course get the last word.

So, for once and for all, I'm right.  You're wrong.  Matter of opinion.  I think the Oklahoma legislature sucks.  I've pointed out why I think it's a laughing-stock.  People point at our state and laugh at some of the crazy that comes out.  I'm sure you don't care, but I have to explain the crazy to saner people who are my friends that don't live here.  Problem is, I can't really.

And before some melon-head gets on here and tells me to 'GTFO'...don't.  I've got just as much right to live here as someone who espouses more with the left than some of the mouth-breathers I see living here.  Day in and day out.  Just because I don't align with your politics doesn't mean I don't want better for my HOME.

I've had better and saner arguments with three year olds.

I never put up a opinion really one way or the other for RTW for either Oklahoma or MI.  I've never been a part of a union in the 28 years I've been in the work force.  My dad, however, was for almost all of his.  That probably makes me a commie union lover.  My observations were on the crazy that is Oklahoma gubmint.

I thought you'd lighten up a little after the elections.  I guess not.  I'll go back to ignoring you now.  Have a nice life.

Makes it even better that I've found a script I can just plop certain users on ignore.  Yay!

[cynical]

Really?  Is that all you can come up with?

Back to being on subject and going back a few posts, please explain why with all the stupid things the Oklahoma legislature has done that you appear to think Michigan should have followed our example of letting the people vote for Right to Work.  I actually agree that it may have been a legitimate thing to do but you prefaced its legitimacy with the actions of the Oklahoma legislature.

Townsend:
Me:
You:

Actually, if you truly favor RTW there's an important reason to enact it the way Oklahoma did - as a constitutional amendment - rather than as a statute as was done in Michigan. Constitutional changes are much more difficult to reverse than statutory measures. They tend to lay the matter to rest. Former state senator Ted Fisher, who ran for office as a right to work supporter, told me he changed his mind about it when he discovered that RTW supporters did not want the matter settled as a constitutional amendment because they thought that enacting RTW as a statute would enable them to continue to raise money from the business community to keep the unions at bay. RTW as a statute is a continuing cash cow.

[Red Arrow]

Actually, if you truly favor RTW there's an important reason to enact it the way Oklahoma did - as a constitutional amendment - rather than as a statute as was done in Michigan. Constitutional changes are much more difficult to reverse than statutory measures. They tend to lay the matter to rest. Former state senator Ted Fisher, who ran for office as a right to work supporter, told me he changed his mind about it when he discovered that RTW supporters did not want the matter settled as a constitutional amendment because they thought that enacting RTW as a statute would enable them to continue to raise money from the business community to keep the unions at bay. RTW as a statute is a continuing cash cow.

Actually, the only thing I originally challenged Hoss about was his using the Oklahoma Legislature as an example of how to do something knowing that he loves it so much and only because of that. 

Townsend's reply to the remark I addressed to him (Townsend) was a legitimate one.  Of course anyone else is free to inject their thoughts into the thread too.

[guido911]

What about those other 'unions' like the state bar association, realtors associations, the AMA, the ADA, etc?  It seems to me that if the state can forbid a traditional union from having a closed shop and mandatory dues, the same could be said of these other unions.  If someone graduates from med school or law school, they should be able to simply go to work without being forced into one of these organizations. 

Like I wrote many years back, could you imagine what would happen if doctors and lawyers formed unions. Think about your health care costs being increased whenever docs got disgruntled and wanted more. Or, what if they went on strike. I wonder how quickly we would see sympathy strikes pop up in support of those strikes. Probably none since doctors are not "labor".

As far as RTW, I thought its actual affect was persons got to choose whether to join a union or not. That's all. Sounds like democracy to me.