Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation

[dbacksfan 2.0]

And people ask me why I don't want to move back to Oklahoma.

[Hoss]

And people ask me why I don't want to move back to Oklahoma.

My issue is that I was born and raised here and I love Oklahoma.  Even if sometimes I don't love her back because of the stupid smile her elected officials do.  So when someone tells me, especially someone who hasn't lived their whole life here as I have, to leave if I don't like it, I rightly tell those people to pi$$ off.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Same here.  

I'm 38, I decided to stay here after college, but the last few weeks have me really regretting that decision!  Besides low cost of living, can anyone tell me a benefit for living here anymore??  The state is broke, there are few with any common sense trying to fix it, we are a national laughing stock, and there is no end to the madness in sight.  My partner has wanted to leave the state for the last two years, but I've fought him on it, saying that people like us need to stay and fix things.  Now I'm wondering what the hell I'm fighting for??   Geeeeez.

And who are all these dingbats voting these people in?? From what I see on social media and on here, these ideas are all WIDELY being condemned as nutty.  Maybe I'm too insulated from the "real" Oklahoma.

Benefit of living here - because it is a beautiful place with lots of interesting stuff to do.  Well, at least I find a lot of interesting stuff to do, and I don't even get to a lot of the stuff a many of the people on this site like!

There are many with common sense trying to fix it - have been since at least the 60's from my personal experience.  The problem is they are so overwhelmed by the ignorance and stupidstition that it has always been an uphill battle and likely to remain.  Think in terms of the scene from Blazing Saddles, after Bart's confrontation with the Johnson's and he says, "And they are so *dumb*!"  That is the intellectual capacity of our legislative representatives - well, maybe not quite that much, but you get the idea....


You ARE very insulated from the "real" Oklahoma - get out amongst them and proselytize - it can only help!  But be prepared for shunning, blacklisting, and ostracization (slightly less virulent form of shunning.)  There are "corporate citizens" who walk the parking lot looking for bumper stickers supporting what they are against and then firing those people.  Another reason I never use bumper stickers....

Can only try to lead and educate by example - talk up NPR and PBS, where people can start the detox process on poisoned brain cells.  It doesn't help that Faux News is the exclusive, chosen outlet of the average Okrahoma voter - lies and distortions at much greater than the average media rate.

[heironymouspasparagus]

My issue is that I was born and raised here and I love Oklahoma.  Even if sometimes I don't love her back because of the stupid smile her elected officials do.  So when someone tells me, especially someone who hasn't lived their whole life here as I have, to leave if I don't like it, I rightly tell those people to pi$$ off.

Good for you!!  Keep telling them that!!   Too dam many "imports" - people from higher cost areas of the country - who come here to 'score' on the economic conditions with their big jobs and salaries based on home place wage scales, while enjoying the dramatically lower cost of living - in particular in housing.  They vote on really stupid carp, then when they get retired, bail to take the benefits they gained here back to their home place.


On a smaller scale, the same thing has happened to all the small towns surrounding Tulsa - people saw the 'small town' ambience, thought they liked it, then moved there, but brought the same carp they had in Tulsa to those small towns, remaking them into Tulsa.  Owasso, Broken Arrow, Jenks, Bixby, Sand Springs...  those and more have all been afflicted with this disease... 

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Good for you!!  Keep telling them that!!   Too dam many "imports" - people from higher cost areas of the country - who come here to 'score' on the economic conditions with their big jobs and salaries based on home place wage scales, while enjoying the dramatically lower cost of living - in particular in housing.  They vote on really stupid carp, then when they get retired, bail to take the benefits they gained here back to their home place.


On a smaller scale, the same thing has happened to all the small towns surrounding Tulsa - people saw the 'small town' ambience, thought they liked it, then moved there, but brought the same carp they had in Tulsa to those small towns, remaking them into Tulsa.  Owasso, Broken Arrow, Jenks, Bixby, Sand Springs...  those and more have all been afflicted with this disease... 

So you would like to have the small towns around Tulsa to go back to the Skoal Dipping, Crap Kicking, Rednecks that everyone so identifies Oklahoma with, and have goat roping as a state sport.

Hey, these guy are looking for a leadership role, why don't you elect them?

[TheArtist]

Good for you!!  Keep telling them that!!   Too dam many "imports" - people from higher cost areas of the country - who come here to 'score' on the economic conditions with their big jobs and salaries based on home place wage scales, while enjoying the dramatically lower cost of living - in particular in housing.  They vote on really stupid carp, then when they get retired, bail to take the benefits they gained here back to their home place.


On a smaller scale, the same thing has happened to all the small towns surrounding Tulsa - people saw the 'small town' ambience, thought they liked it, then moved there, but brought the same carp they had in Tulsa to those small towns, remaking them into Tulsa.  Owasso, Broken Arrow, Jenks, Bixby, Sand Springs...  those and more have all been afflicted with this disease...  

I sure as heck haven't seen many of those people. I know of more people leaving Tulsa than moving here.  The main "imports" we have are the hispanic population.  Tulsa would have lost population over the last several years if it weren't for them.  And I dare say the trends aren't looking good.  We will probably hit no growth and possibly lose population again.

And what's the deal with cheap housing being such a draw?  I would rather live in half the house with twice the amenities nearby, and I think more and more people are coming to that realization as well.  Which is not good news for Tulsa or Oklahoma if we keep on the path we are going.

[cannon_fodder]

To look at it from a bigger perspective...

We court businesses. We don't care what kind of businesses, if they are really committed to the state, if they pollute, if they are good jobs, or anything else. We just want business.

By and large, that attracts corporate citizens who are looking for handouts and don't really give a crap about the community. They aren't moving here for the people, the community, or anything else - they are moving here because we have attempted to set up a system where they can make money. So they come, and they go, and nothing else really matters to them.

And business IS important. But you can either set up a system where we beg business to come in and give us jobs, and we then cater our rules to them and pay them for the privilege of them being here. OR... you can set up a system where we have an educated work force, a high quality of life, and a business climate that encourages employers to WANT to come here on their own accord.

Seattle. Denver. Portland. Minneapolis. Austin. Hell, even Kansas City. No one moves to those cities because of their low rent, cheap labor, or lack of regulation. Those cities have done a good job of attracting and retaining top talent by having a high standard of living. Companies WANT to move to those location because of the labor - and they are willing to pay more to be there. That means the CITIZENS (aka, the ones who actually "own" the city/state and are supposed to be the beneficiaries of good governance [government FOR THE PEOPLE]) make more money and having a higher standard of living.

Companies want: cheap rent, cheap labor, the ability to do as they please and buy influence (low regulation, "business friendly)
People want: higher wages, higher quality of life, government FOR THE PEOPLE

Most of our best corporate citizens are "born and bred" Tulsa/Oklahoma companies. Other good corporate citizens are long time residents (American Airlines), etc.  Trying to find and bring in "hired guns" to provide low rent jobs might not be the best strategy...

[heironymouspasparagus]

So you would like to have the small towns around Tulsa to go back to the Skoal Dipping, Crap Kicking, Rednecks that everyone so identifies Oklahoma with, and have goat roping as a state sport.

Hey, these guy are looking for a leadership role, why don't you elect them?

This is what we have and always have had - and worse.  The whole point is to try to do better.  So far, it's an uphill battle!

[guido911]

Saw this today.

http://www.ktul.com/story/28150958/drivers-who-smoke-in-cars-with-children-could-face-fines

[Red Arrow]

And what's the deal with cheap housing being such a draw?  I would rather live in half the house with twice the amenities nearby, and I think more and more people are coming to that realization as well.

I turned down transfer to the San Jose, CA area in the late 80s primarily because of the cost of living.  Housing was the biggest part.  I went on a few trips to that site and always cruised around the area in the rental car.  One place I remember was Los Gatos.  Houses that looked like $60,000 in Tulsa were decorated with Mercedes, BMW, Cadillac, Lincoln.... cars.  Turned out those houses were at least $350,000 way back then.  My boss took the transfer.  He traded a 2800 ft^2 house in BA and two cars (one for his wife) for an 1100 ft^2 house on a postage stamp for $200,000+ and one POS car.  All he could afford to do was go to work.   He took another transfer out of CA a few years later but couldn't cash-in because CA taxed housing gains heavily for folks in his situation.

We all have different requirements for amenities.  
I generally think that going out to eat in my home town is a waste of time and money.  There are a few exceptions, about 1/2 dozen per year.  I'd rather spend my money on avgas. I like to visit museums once in a while.  I enjoyed my time in my favorite local bars when I was in the Navy.  I don't want to do that now, except occasionally.  I would probably enjoy the Symphony but I hate to get dressed up and don't wish to spoil the evening for those who do.  I'm generally not interested in theater productions.  Crowded places are not a source of enjoyment for me.   I have outgrown 100 dBA rock concerts.   I did enjoy the Boston Pops on the 4th of July (1980).  Walking the Freedom Trail in Boston was fun but not something I would do every week.  I don't care about professional athletic competitions.

I do like having fire, police, and ambulance service nearby.  I was OK with driving a few miles to a grocery store and don't care for most of the development along Memorial.  I do go to the WalMart, Reasor's, and Lowe's here at 111th and Memorial though as it would be silly to go to their other locations just to protest the local traffic.   Piped in natural gas rather than a tank of propane is nice.

Our house is about 1500 ft^2.  An extra hobby room would be nice but I would probably just fill it with more stuff and still not have enough room.  I don't want a 4000 ft^2 house to maintain.  The acre of land and having my nearest neighbors about 100 ft away is nice and worth the price of a garden tractor and the time to cut the grass. Edging is not necessary without sidewalks or curbs. (Just for you Townsend.   ) Chainsaws, rototils, hedge trimmers and other power devices requiring hearing protection and work gloves are a good way to get some exercise. I get out the ax if there are just a few fallen limbs too big for the muscle powered loppers.

A general aviation airport somewhat nearby is a necessity.  Riverside/Jones is about 10 miles.  I don't golf.  I tried it once in high school and shot a 296 for 18 holes and lost about a dozen golf balls.  

Sorry for the rambling.  I understand that a lot of people want the stuff I don't care about and vise versa.

Edit:
I almost forgot to say I like having room for my pepper gardens and space to throw a toy for our German Shepherd.  Pepper seedlings are popping up in the area originally designed as a dining room. I have 4 flats of peppers and eggplants.  I'll get Okra started in another space in a few weeks. Okra comes up faster than peppers and eggplants.

[TheArtist]

I turned down transfer to the San Jose, CA area in the late 80s primarily because of the cost of living.  Housing was the biggest part.  I went on a few trips to that site and always cruised around the area in the rental car.  One place I remember was Los Gatos.  Houses that looked like $60,000 in Tulsa were decorated with Mercedes, BMW, Cadillac, Lincoln.... cars.  Turned out those houses were at least $350,000 way back then.  My boss took the transfer.  He traded a 2800 ft^2 house in BA and two cars (one for his wife) for an 1100 ft^2 house on a postage stamp for $200,000+ and one POS car.  All he could afford to do was go to work.   He took another transfer out of CA a few years later but couldn't cash-in because CA taxed housing gains heavily for folks in his situation.

We all have different requirements for amenities.  
I generally think that going out to eat in my home town is a waste of time and money.  There are a few exceptions, about 1/2 dozen per year.  I'd rather spend my money on avgas. I like to visit museums once in a while.  I enjoyed my time in my favorite local bars when I was in the Navy.  I don't want to do that now, except occasionally.  I would probably enjoy the Symphony but I hate to get dressed up and don't wish to spoil the evening for those who do.  I'm generally not interested in theater productions.  Crowded places are not a source of enjoyment for me.   I have outgrown 100 dBA rock concerts.   I did enjoy the Boston Pops on the 4th of July (1980).  Walking the Freedom Trail in Boston was fun but not something I would do every week.  I don't care about professional athletic competitions.

I do like having fire, police, and ambulance service nearby.  I was OK with driving a few miles to a grocery store and don't care for most of the development along Memorial.  I do go to the WalMart, Reasor's, and Lowe's here at 111th and Memorial though as it would be silly to go to their other locations just to protest the local traffic.   Piped in natural gas rather than a tank of propane is nice.

Our house is about 1500 ft^2.  An extra hobby room would be nice but I would probably just fill it with more stuff and still not have enough room.  I don't want a 4000 ft^2 house to maintain.  The acre of land and having my nearest neighbors about 100 ft away is nice and worth the price of a garden tractor and the time to cut the grass. Edging is not necessary without sidewalks or curbs. (Just for you Townsend.   ) Chainsaws, rototils, hedge trimmers and other power devices requiring hearing protection and work gloves are a good way to get some exercise. I get out the ax if there are just a few fallen limbs too big for the muscle powered loppers.

A general aviation airport somewhat nearby is a necessity.  Riverside/Jones is about 10 miles.  I don't golf.  I tried it once in high school and shot a 296 for 18 holes and lost about a dozen golf balls.  

Sorry for the rambling.  I understand that a lot of people want the stuff I don't care about and vise versa.

Edit:
I almost forgot to say I like having room for my pepper gardens and space to throw a toy for our German Shepherd.  Pepper seedlings are popping up in the area originally designed as a dining room. I have 4 flats of peppers and eggplants.  I'll get Okra started in another space in a few weeks. Okra comes up faster than peppers and eggplants.

You know whats fascinating when I read your first couple of paragraphs was the thought that basically what your friend moved to was a more expensive, and compact version of what we have here.  Same thing, just more of it.   Dallas has taken that route.  It's still a suburban car culture, just done big.  Very much just as isolating in many ways and doesn't change ones cultural/societal take on things.

For instance, in a more pedestrian/transit friendly city with people living that lifestyle, your perspectives and values can shift ever so subtly yet profoundly.  The local parks become your yard and you come to value them, even if you have a small plot out back to grow flowers and vegetables.  The sidewalks are your hallways, the cafe or patisserie around the corner your breakfast nook, the local pub (and they are not all always noisy brawling places) a hang out for friends and family, the subway is another way of getting around (in London I remember one evening going out and seeing a couple of older couples in perhaps their late 60's early 70's sitting in the seats right opposite me, the ladies had on nice skirts and dress shoes a scarf thrown around their necks, the gentlemen in slacks and tweed jackets with hats on. They were laughing and carrying on a good conversation and from what I gathered were going out to a restaurant to have dinner. Not what my stereotype of what the subway was supposed to be like, but was full of everyday people of all sorts, families, children, teens, tourists, young, old, etc.)  Also every day you would see young people in suits heading off to work, children walking the sidewalks near where I lived in their school uniforms. Beautiful, quiet, tree lined streets lined with row houses were behind the apartment buildings where I lived, while just to the other side of me was a main street and subway station.  Everything in the world was right there easy breezy.  No car needed or even wanted. There a car would be more of a burden or a hassle. I couldn't imagine trying to navigate those winding mazes of streets and had no idea where anyone would park a car if they had one anyway.

Driving around here around Norman today to run some errands. I literally drove for hours, fields with lots of new homes going in (made me wonder what on earth those children did in those neighborhoods) buildings, parking lots, more fields, highways......no people.  Work to home, no people. That changes you and your outlook, and perhaps you don't even realize what it's doing to you. I always wonder if there is some connection with how we have some of the highest suicide rates in the world (higher even than our homicide rates) and the fact that we are so isolated and alone for so much of the time. We lack the sense of community and camaraderie that you seem to far more easily find in even a huge city, where you wouldn't think that would happen.

That's what I am talking about when I talk about "amenities". Being able to get everything within a short walk or quick hop on the tube. Amenities like beautiful parks and public spaces with statues and fountains, birds and all sorts of plants, right around the corner. Quiet avenues and squares, lovely old churches of mossy stone with big old trees in the lots around them over here, bustling streets full of life right over there. Stumbling across and investigating the occasional little flea market. Incredible food markets (my gosh if I could adequately describe one of the food markets I ran across one day while out randomly exploring, stall after stall after stall of glorious, scrumptious pastries and sweets of every sort imaginable surrounding you on every side.)  I don't know whether that would be a good amenity or a horrible one, but I do know I would die fat and with a smile on my whip creme and chocolate covered face right there in the middle of it all.  

Anywhoo, thats what I mean by more amenities, not just smaller home more driving and more expense so you can go to the theater or a loud club or concert (which oddly seems to be the perspective of "that's urban living" in our neck of the woods as even you seem to have put out there a bit).

Again, not saying thats for everyone, but would like the cities in our state to be able to have some good urban living, to be able to offer those types of amenities.  And yes, along with that comes a different sense of perspective and values.  And a lot of people here do not want that and will fight against it.

Frighteningly enough, just as our cities like Tulsa and OKC seem to be developing more urban cores and being able to attract or keep those types of people who like it, the prevailing attitudes in the state seem bent on destroying that progress, economically and socially.  It's like we are soooo close, making decent progress and BAM! out of the blue comes some stupid bill, tax issue, economic conundrum, face palm social issue headline, etc. to scare us into thinking all our hard work will be for naught.

[Red Arrow]

You know whats fascinating when I read your first couple of paragraphs was the thought that basically what your friend moved to was a more expensive, and compact version of what we have here.  Same thing, just more of it.

Yep.  I was just pointing out that affordable (let's call it that rather than cheap) housing allows the owners to do something besides support a home.
 

For instance, in a more pedestrian/transit friendly city with people living that lifestyle, your perspectives and values can shift ever so subtly yet profoundly.  The local parks become your yard and you come to value them, even if you have a small plot out back to grow flowers and vegetables.  The sidewalks are your hallways, the cafe or patisserie around the corner your breakfast nook, the local pub (and they are not all always noisy brawling places) a hang out for friends and family,

I understand.  Where I grew up had neighborhood parks.  We used them and had fun but I never considered them "my yard".  Sidewalks were a way to get somewhere but I never considered them an extension of our home.  We had a neighborhood deli (still there 40+ years later, owned by the 3 generation of the same family), drug store, variety shop, beauty salon, barber, grocery, butcher shop, beverage (beer) store and maybe a few more but they were places of business.  The businesses have changed since then.  I wasn't quite pub age when we moved to OK. There was a neighborhood pub and additional shopping one trolley stop away but it was walkable at about 1/2 mile through one of the neighborhood parks.

the subway is another way of getting around (in London I remember one evening going out and seeing a couple of older couples in perhaps their late 60's early 70's sitting in the seats right opposite me, the ladies had on nice skirts and dress shoes a scarf thrown around their necks, the gentlemen in slacks and tweed jackets with hats on. They were laughing and carrying on a good conversation and from what I gathered were going out to a restaurant to have dinner. Not what my stereotype of what the subway was supposed to be like, but was full of everyday people of all sorts, families, children, teens, tourists, young, old, etc.)  Also every day you would see young people in suits heading off to work, children walking the sidewalks near where I lived in their school uniforms. Beautiful, quiet, tree lined streets lined with row houses were behind the apartment buildings where I lived, while just to the other side of me was a main street and subway station.  Everything in the world was right there easy breezy.  No car needed or even wanted. There a car would be more of a burden or a hassle. I couldn't imagine trying to navigate those winding mazes of streets and had no idea where anyone would park a car if they had one anyway.

As I have posted numerous times before, if I needed to go to Phila I took the trolley to the interchange with the Phila Market St Subway unless there was a direct need to have a car such as going to a benefit dog show in Rittenhouse Square. Kids took the trolley to school. Adults took the trolley/subway to Phila.  A short drive away from our neighborhood was an electric commuter train (heavy rail).  One of my friends' father used the train as it took him closer to his work quicker than the trolley route.  My friend's mom drove the dad to and from the train station in the one family car.  Most elementary school kids walked or rode bikes to school. The Catholic school kids wore uniforms but public school kids did not have uniforms.   I can understand not needing a car.  A Navy friend grew up in NYC and never even learned to drive until he was in the Navy.  On the flip side, one of my cousins lived in Boston near the Boston Commons in the mid to late 70s. She used public transit when she could but still had a car to get away.  One thing she did was go to some local lakes to ride her surfboard sailboat which she stored in her spot in the parking garage.  Even in Boston there were instances when it was still more convenient to go by car than by transit.  You will need to accept that many of "us" want to own a car.  It is one reason I would not want to live in a place like NYC.  I agree owning a car there is an insane expense.

Driving around here around Norman today to run some errands. I literally drove for hours, fields with lots of new homes going in (made me wonder what on earth those children did in those neighborhoods) buildings, parking lots, more fields, highways......no people.  Work to home, no people. That changes you and your outlook, and perhaps you don't even realize what it's doing to you. I always wonder if there is some connection with how we have some of the highest suicide rates in the world (higher even than our homicide rates) and the fact that we are so isolated and alone for so much of the time. We lack the sense of community and camaraderie that you seem to far more easily find in even a huge city, where you wouldn't think that would happen.

I too wonder why folks around here want to live 5 ft from their neighbor without the amenities you describe.  Where I grew up there were mostly single family houses and duplexes with a few small apartment buildings with about 4 apartments each.  Even before dad got transferred here, mom and dad wanted to move farther out to a semi rural area. We moved here before that happened.  As I said, we are on about an acre because we wanted the space.  It used to be quiet and dark at night and we could see the stars, even toward the north over Tulsa.  Not so much anymore.  I could walk to WalMart at 111th  & Memorial.  It's about 6/10 mi.  My mom is pretty old now, needs a walker, and could not walk to the corner store where I grew up.  I will admit that if we were in a much denser area that more neighbors would be available to help her if needed.

That's what I am talking about when I talk about "amenities". Being able to get everything within a short walk or quick hop on the tube. Amenities like beautiful parks and public spaces with statues and fountains, birds and all sorts of plants, right around the corner. Quiet avenues and squares, lovely old churches of mossy stone with big old trees in the lots around them over here, bustling streets full of life right over there. Stumbling across and investigating the occasional little flea market. Incredible food markets (my gosh if I could adequately describe one of the food markets I ran across one day while out randomly exploring, stall after stall after stall of glorious, scrumptious pastries and sweets of every sort imaginable surrounding you on every side.)  I don't know whether that would be a good amenity or a horrible one, but I do know I would die fat and with a smile on my whip creme and chocolate covered face right there in the middle of it all.

I'm just not into that kind of stuff.  When I was in Munich looking for some gifts to take back to my hosts near Frankfurt, it was nearly painful for me to be shopping for some small gifts.  It's just not something I do well.  However, I could spend all day wandering through an automobile salvage yard looking at the cars wondering what was wrong with the cars with no visible crash damage.  I am not much of a foodie but I did like the fresh bagels my cousin and I got at Faneuil Hall Market in Boston. We looked through many of the other stores but I don't remember buying anything.  I'm just not a shopper in the sense that you are.

Anywhoo, thats what I mean by more amenities, not just smaller home more driving and more expense so you can go to the theater or a loud club or concert (which oddly seems to be the perspective of "that's urban living" in our neck of the woods as even you seem to have put out there a bit).

I had forgotten about your extended home attributes of parks etc.  I doubt I could buy into it personally but I can see what you are saying.  I agree that urban is not just smaller homes and more driving.  As I understand it, many urban row homes have more square footage than many of the free standing homes around here.  They are just skinny, share walls with neighbors, and don't have side yards.

Again, not saying thats for everyone, but would like the cities in our state to be able to have some good urban living, to be able to offer those types of amenities.  And yes, along with that comes a different sense of perspective and values.  And a lot of people here do not want that and will fight against it.

I think what you and many others want should be available.  A lively downtown makes shops like yours more viable.  One of them might just have the one thing I need that couldn't be supported by the likes of Woodland Hills Mall. In the late 80s I went downtown to buy a printer for the home computer.  They had an Epson LQ1000, 24 pin dot matrix.  Hot stuff at the time.  They actually had one in stock for me to look at. I bought it.  If nothing else, an urban core might ease some of the traffic out here by moving people back from the burbs.  I would like usable public transit.  I might be more likely to come downtown if there was a trolley from 121st and Memorial to downtown.  I believe it is in one of the distant future options.  I probably won't live that long.

Frighteningly enough, just as our cities like Tulsa and OKC seem to be developing more urban cores and being able to attract or keep those types of people who like it, the prevailing attitudes in the state seem bent on destroying that progress, economically and socially.  It's like we are soooo close, making decent progress and BAM! out of the blue comes some stupid bill, tax issue, economic conundrum, face palm social issue headline, etc. to scare us into thinking all our hard work will be for naught.

I hope you and others are successful in revitalizing downtowns all over.  When we lived near Phila we could get almost anything in a day.  When we moved here, we could get almost anything.... from Dallas in a few days.


The old stomping grounds:
http://goo.gl/maps/hc19e

[TheArtist]

Very nice neighborhood. Too suburban for my tastes.  But again, to each his own, well at least I wish more people around here thought that.

Here are my "old stomping grounds" near the outskirts of London and when I go back to visit will like to stay in the area.  There is a great Hostel "Palmers Lodge, Swiss Cottage" there  http://palmerslodges.com/swisscottage/hostel/  Video shows the hostel and briefly the area https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eDQ93Ozyetw   stayed in a ground floor apartment at this location 24 College Cres and could walk in like 2 minutes to the Swiss Cottage tube station.  There were also numerous bus stops nearby and a "main street" type area right around the corner. Beautiful quiet streets one way, quick access to the whole world the other.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/28+College+Cres,+London+NW3+5LH,+UK/@51.5446489,-0.1750725,117m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m7!1m4!3m3!1s0x48761a906a56ade7:0x5a8c04b0d0724031!2s24+College+Cres,+London+NW3+5LL,+UK!3b1!3m1!1s0x48761a901190a271:0xbee24c8415355652

Cant figure out how to save the satellite view?

Anywhoo, you can do the street view, might have to swing around a bit to the right, just past the stores to see my apartment which was in the brown brick building facing the sidewalk on the left "Northways Parade" (hope it shows things in that direction) and I could see the white homes across the street from my window.  Turning around was my "commute" to the tube station on the Jubilee Line and turning right on Finchley Road you would go down the main street where I would get my groceries, shop and dine.  If what I wanted wasn't there, I would take the tube and in a few minutes could be at another station in a more bustling urban area that had more things.  This was a relatively quiet part of town which was nice.

[cynical]

This is the urban-centered vision that most of the young professional types have. The entrepreneurs who would build a business and stay around want this for themselves and their employees. Unfortunately, we have a mayor who in complete good faith has no idea what TheArtist is talking about, even after talking to a number of young entrepreneurs. You might as well be speaking Hmong. It just doesn't compute. I know there are some on the city council who understand, but building a political consensus to change the model in this very conservative city is very difficult, especially when the issue can be turned into a "liberal vs. conservative" wedge issue by political hacks who have no genuine concern either way. This is a huge problem.

Stated another way: No one ever lost a local election by saying that Tulsa is a really great place the way it is.

You know whats fascinating when I read your first couple of paragraphs was the thought that basically what your friend moved to was a more expensive, and compact version of what we have here.  Same thing, just more of it.   Dallas has taken that route.  It's still a suburban car culture, just done big.  Very much just as isolating in many ways and doesn't change ones cultural/societal take on things.

For instance, in a more pedestrian/transit friendly city with people living that lifestyle, your perspectives and values can shift ever so subtly yet profoundly.  The local parks become your yard and you come to value them, even if you have a small plot out back to grow flowers and vegetables.  The sidewalks are your hallways, the cafe or patisserie around the corner your breakfast nook, the local pub (and they are not all always noisy brawling places) a hang out for friends and family, the subway is another way of getting around (in London I remember one evening going out and seeing a couple of older couples in perhaps their late 60's early 70's sitting in the seats right opposite me, the ladies had on nice skirts and dress shoes a scarf thrown around their necks, the gentlemen in slacks and tweed jackets with hats on. They were laughing and carrying on a good conversation and from what I gathered were going out to a restaurant to have dinner. Not what my stereotype of what the subway was supposed to be like, but was full of everyday people of all sorts, families, children, teens, tourists, young, old, etc.)  Also every day you would see young people in suits heading off to work, children walking the sidewalks near where I lived in their school uniforms. Beautiful, quiet, tree lined streets lined with row houses were behind the apartment buildings where I lived, while just to the other side of me was a main street and subway station.  Everything in the world was right there easy breezy.  No car needed or even wanted. There a car would be more of a burden or a hassle. I couldn't imagine trying to navigate those winding mazes of streets and had no idea where anyone would park a car if they had one anyway.

Driving around here around Norman today to run some errands. I literally drove for hours, fields with lots of new homes going in (made me wonder what on earth those children did in those neighborhoods) buildings, parking lots, more fields, highways......no people.  Work to home, no people. That changes you and your outlook, and perhaps you don't even realize what it's doing to you. I always wonder if there is some connection with how we have some of the highest suicide rates in the world (higher even than our homicide rates) and the fact that we are so isolated and alone for so much of the time. We lack the sense of community and camaraderie that you seem to far more easily find in even a huge city, where you wouldn't think that would happen.

That's what I am talking about when I talk about "amenities". Being able to get everything within a short walk or quick hop on the tube. Amenities like beautiful parks and public spaces with statues and fountains, birds and all sorts of plants, right around the corner. Quiet avenues and squares, lovely old churches of mossy stone with big old trees in the lots around them over here, bustling streets full of life right over there. Stumbling across and investigating the occasional little flea market. Incredible food markets (my gosh if I could adequately describe one of the food markets I ran across one day while out randomly exploring, stall after stall after stall of glorious, scrumptious pastries and sweets of every sort imaginable surrounding you on every side.)  I don't know whether that would be a good amenity or a horrible one, but I do know I would die fat and with a smile on my whip creme and chocolate covered face right there in the middle of it all.  

Anywhoo, thats what I mean by more amenities, not just smaller home more driving and more expense so you can go to the theater or a loud club or concert (which oddly seems to be the perspective of "that's urban living" in our neck of the woods as even you seem to have put out there a bit).

Again, not saying thats for everyone, but would like the cities in our state to be able to have some good urban living, to be able to offer those types of amenities.  And yes, along with that comes a different sense of perspective and values.  And a lot of people here do not want that and will fight against it.

Frighteningly enough, just as our cities like Tulsa and OKC seem to be developing more urban cores and being able to attract or keep those types of people who like it, the prevailing attitudes in the state seem bent on destroying that progress, economically and socially.  It's like we are soooo close, making decent progress and BAM! out of the blue comes some stupid bill, tax issue, economic conundrum, face palm social issue headline, etc. to scare us into thinking all our hard work will be for naught.

[Red Arrow]

Very nice neighborhood. Too suburban for my tastes.  But again, to each his own, well at least I wish more people around here thought that.

Here are my "old stomping grounds" near the outskirts of London and when I go back to visit will like to stay in the area.  There is a great Hostel "Palmers Lodge, Swiss Cottage" there  http://palmerslodges.com/swisscottage/hostel/  Video shows the hostel and briefly the area https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eDQ93Ozyetw   stayed in a ground floor apartment at this location 24 College Cres and could walk in like 2 minutes to the Swiss Cottage tube station.  There were also numerous bus stops nearby and a "main street" type area right around the corner. Beautiful quiet streets one way, quick access to the whole world the other.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/28+College+Cres,+London+NW3+5LH,+UK/@51.5446489,-0.1750725,117m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m7!1m4!3m3!1s0x48761a906a56ade7:0x5a8c04b0d0724031!2s24+College+Cres,+London+NW3+5LL,+UK!3b1!3m1!1s0x48761a901190a271:0xbee24c8415355652

Cant figure out how to save the satellite view?

Anywhoo, you can do the street view, might have to swing around a bit to the right, just past the stores to see my apartment which was in the brown brick building facing the sidewalk on the left "Northways Parade" (hope it shows things in that direction) and I could see the white homes across the street from my window.  Turning around was my "commute" to the tube station on the Jubilee Line and turning right on Finchley Road you would go down the main street where I would get my groceries, shop and dine.  If what I wanted wasn't there, I would take the tube and in a few minutes could be at another station in a more bustling urban area that had more things.  This was a relatively quiet part of town which was nice.

That is the type of area I would like to visit.  If I were to stay somewhere for just few months I could go for that.  Too urban for me for the long haul though.

This probably made you feel like you were still in Tulsa.  
(Give it a few seconds to switch to Street View)
http://goo.gl/maps/SFPu0

I can't find access to the brown brick building from College Cres.  Did they tear down the white homes visible in street view but not apparent from above?

Where I grew up was definitely suburban.  Our little spot did not require a car but a car was a great help.  Some of the reasons my parents bought here were the trolley and the convenience of the stores around the corner.  Full scale groceries were about 2 miles by car on Baltimore Pike in Clifton Heights.  Later, the suburban shopping centers started popping up.  There were several grocery stores, Penn Fruit Company and A&P were about 1-1/2 miles.  Until the shopping centers were built, the "real" shopping, department stores etc, was at 69th St.  That was also where the suburban and urban transit met. 69th St was about 5 miles by car or 20 minutes by trolley.  The trolley station was about 100 yards from our house.  69th St was a number based on Philadelphia street numbers but was actually in Upper Darby.

69th St area:  
http://goo.gl/maps/IDrB1

West Chester Pike coming in to the trolley terminal:
http://goo.gl/maps/yJjgP

69th St, looking toward the trolley terminal:
http://goo.gl/maps/OgPPQ

Or, if this is still too suburban, Phila was just to the east across Cobbs Creek.  I believe 63rd St was Phila.
http://goo.gl/maps/gQgKO