Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation

[Red Arrow]

My property tax has tripled since I first bought my house in 1979. So has the value of my home.

You should be ecstatic.  Isn't that the goal of every homeowner, to have the value of their house soar?  It seems like one of the main advantages of every development project is to increase property values.  Are you saying that is not a good thing?

[AquaMan]

You should be ecstatic.  Isn't that the goal of every homeowner, to have the value of their house soar?  It seems like one of the main advantages of every development project is to increase property values.  Are you saying that is not a good thing?

I am ecstatic. Along with that increase in value came a corresponding increase in ad valorem tax. My point was that my real estate tax grew much faster than my state income tax. In fact, even though my house value declined since 2008, the property tax continued to rise. Sauer seems to think that state income taxes are a greater burden than property taxes in Oklahoma. Maybe in rural OK but that hasn't been my experience in the metro.

State income taxes are fairly low here, we offer tons of deductions and the interest I paid on my refinanced home at a higher interest rate, meant even larger deductions off my federal income which meant less income taxable by the state.

Just keeping him honest.

[Red Arrow]

I am ecstatic. Along with that increase in value came a corresponding increase in ad valorem tax. My point was that my real estate tax grew much faster than my state income tax. In fact, even though my house value declined since 2008, the property tax continued to rise. Sauer seems to think that state income taxes are a greater burden than property taxes in Oklahoma. Maybe in rural OK but that hasn't been my experience in the metro.

State income taxes are fairly low here, we offer tons of deductions and the interest I paid on my refinanced home at a higher interest rate, meant even larger deductions off my federal income which meant less income taxable by the state.

Just keeping him honest.

A simple thank you for me helping to support you and your home would suffice.

[Red Arrow]

I am ecstatic. Along with that increase in value came a corresponding increase in ad valorem tax. My point was that my real estate tax grew much faster than my state income tax. In fact, even though my house value declined since 2008, the property tax continued to rise. Sauer seems to think that state income taxes are a greater burden than property taxes in Oklahoma. Maybe in rural OK but that hasn't been my experience in the metro.

State income taxes are fairly low here, we offer tons of deductions and the interest I paid on my refinanced home at a higher interest rate, meant even larger deductions off my federal income which meant less income taxable by the state.

Just keeping him honest.

My point is that maybe you should have lost your house to increased taxes that you could not afford.  It's good for the city and state to get the increased revenue.  Never mind how long you may have lived there and how much you may have invested in your home.

I don't really wish you lost your home but at some point this crap about ever increasing home values and taxes has to stop.

[AquaMan]

I can't figure out why you are going on this path. Sauer made an unsupportable statement, which is common for him. Truth is, Texas is not cheaper to live in than OK and state income taxes in each state are not as onerous as property taxes.

My feelings about my increase in taxation on my home while its value declined is only a minor irritant to me as I understand that the city/state have obligations that increase regardless of the value of my home. Since a lot of tax revenues come from that source, they must adjust. I could always rent or live in an RV. It still hurts those who are on fixed incomes whose property taxes rise faster than their income.

[Red Arrow]

I can't figure out why you are going on this path. Sauer made an unsupportable statement, which is common for him. Truth is, Texas is not cheaper to live in than OK and state income taxes in each state are not as onerous as property taxes.

One of my friends has lived in both TX and OK and he says OK is a bit less expensive.  One thing our family noted when we moved here from PA in 1971 is that the standard of living is lower in OK than it was in PA when we moved.

It's always fun to pick out a tax or two and compare to another state. OK taxes pretty much everything.  Pick two things from TX, another two from KS or MO.....  When we moved from PA, sales tax in PA was not included in food, clothing, and prescription drugs.  Trips to the grocery store included knowing what items were taxable and putting them first so the adding machine type cash registers could make a subtotal of the taxable items before adding in the non-taxed items. I haven't checked PA taxes lately. 

The relative proportion of property tax to income tax gets messy when

State income taxes are fairly low here, we offer tons of deductions and the interest I paid on my refinanced home at a higher interest rate, meant even larger deductions off my federal income which meant less income taxable by the state.

What would that be like if your home was paid off?   What happens in several years when interest is less a part of your house payment?  Higher interest rate?  Do you not include what you pay to the bank as outgo?  Your interest deduction reduces your taxable income, not your tax one to one. You are still paying a large part of that interest out of your pocket.  Probably the only reason you came out "ahead" is that remaining payments are spread out over more years than before your refinance.   

My feelings about my increase in taxation on my home while its value declined is only a minor irritant to me as I understand that the city/state have obligations that increase regardless of the value of my home. Since a lot of tax revenues come from that source, they must adjust. I could always rent or live in an RV.

I would consider that a lot more than a minor irritant. Do you really think you don't pay property taxes when you rent? You don't pay directly but I'm sure they are included in the rent.

[sauerkraut]

I lived in Texas for 10 years and found the standard of living higher in Texas  than in Oklahoma and  the cost of living is  lower in Texas- The everyday items are what count alot, gasoline is a few cents higher in Texas, but food in Texas  has no sales taxes, rents seem to be lower in Texas than in Oklahoma, and with no state income taxes the paychecks are bigger, At tax time the only 1040 tax forms you have to file are federal taxes. The Texas  climate is milder than in Oklahoma and you use less heat, homeowners insureance is lower in Texas- and as every home owner knows in Oklahoma the cost to insure your home is in orbit. Much of the costs all come out in the wash in the end, both states have a low cost of living comapired to other states, much depends on your life style and earnings. There are web sites that compair cities and compair cost of living data, but no two families are alike in their spending and tax bills. IMO Texas has the edge over Oklahoma because Texas has no state income taxes. I really hope Mary Fallin can get rid of Oklahoma's state income taxes they are regressive taxes and hurt the economy.

[AquaMan]

I lived in Texas for 10 years and found the standard of living higher in Texas  than in Oklahoma and  the cost of living is  lower in Texas- The everyday items are what count alot, gasoline is a few cents higher in Texas, but food in Texas  has no sales taxes, rents seem to be lower in Texas than in Oklahoma, and with no state income taxes the paychecks are bigger, At tax time the only 1040 tax forms you have to file are federal taxes. The Texas  climate is milder than in Oklahoma and you use less heat, homeowners insureance is lower in Texas- and as every home owner knows in Oklahoma the cost to insure your home is in orbit. Much of the costs all come out in the wash in the end, both states have a low cost of living comapired to other states, much depends on your life style and earnings. There are web sites that compair cities and compair cost of living data, but no two families are alike in their spending and tax bills. IMO Texas has the edge over Oklahoma because Texas has no state income taxes. I really hope Mary Fallin can get rid of Oklahoma's state income taxes they are regressive taxes and hurt the economy.

For heaven's sake (and ours) move back there. Texas is a large, diverse state that could probably be divided up into south, north, east and west and make more sense. No way I want OK to be anything like them. Except for Austin maybe.

[AquaMan]

One of my friends has lived in both TX and OK and he says OK is a bit less expensive.  One thing our family noted when we moved here from PA in 1971 is that the standard of living is lower in OK than it was in PA when we moved.

It's always fun to pick out a tax or two and compare to another state. OK taxes pretty much everything.  Pick two things from TX, another two from KS or MO.....  When we moved from PA, sales tax in PA was not included in food, clothing, and prescription drugs.  Trips to the grocery store included knowing what items were taxable and putting them first so the adding machine type cash registers could make a subtotal of the taxable items before adding in the non-taxed items. I haven't checked PA taxes lately. 

The relative proportion of property tax to income tax gets messy when  What would that be like if your home was paid off?   What happens in several years when interest is less a part of your house payment?  Higher interest rate?  Do you not include what you pay to the bank as outgo?  Your interest deduction reduces your taxable income, not your tax one to one. You are still paying a large part of that interest out of your pocket.  Probably the only reason you came out "ahead" is that remaining payments are spread out over more years than before your refinance.   
I would consider that a lot more than a minor irritant. Do you really think you don't pay property taxes when you rent? You don't pay directly but I'm sure they are included in the rent.

You must not have much to do this weekend. Tilting at windmills?

To cut to the chase, I don't intend to live in this home till its paid off. Rent reflects only a portion of property tax and I am not subject to a lien, foreclosure and penalties if I don't pay my rent. They just kick my butt out and ruin my credit! RV? Just unhook the black water and move along.

[Red Arrow]

You must not have much to do this weekend.

It's cold outside.  I notice you keep showing up here too.

Tilting at windmills?

Nah, just trying to keep you honest.

To cut to the chase, I don't intend to live in this home till its paid off.

I guess that's just another area where we have different goals in life. If you keep refinancing, you won't live long enough to pay off anything and you will be paying interest. If you want to pay a bank $x to avoid paying $x/4 in taxes, more power to you.

Rent reflects only a portion of property tax

It at least represents the building/land portion that you are renting.  I'm not sure about furnishings if you rent a furnished place.

and I am not subject to a lien, foreclosure and penalties if I don't pay my rent. They just kick my butt out and ruin my credit!

I'll give you this one.

RV? Just unhook the black water and move along.

I'm just not the nomadic type.  Travel is fun but I like a home base.  Well, it used to be fun before 9/11.

[nathanm]

My SO's parents live in Florida, one of the no income tax states. Their property tax is presently about the same as what we pay in property tax and state income tax combined. Before the bubble burst, they were paying about 3 or 4 times what we pay in property tax and state income tax. Granted, that was on a ridiculous valuation, but it was reality in the sense that people were indeed buying houses in that neighborhood for around what the assessed value was.

The point being that they get their money one way or another.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I'm just not the nomadic type.  Travel is fun but I like a home base.  Well, it used to be fun before 9/11.

Get an acreage, build a nice "barn" for maintenance/home base, then a nice RV that you can park on a pad near the "barn".

When in the area - home base.  When ready to travel, hook up and go.

I live a lot of the time in an RV, and hotels/motels and visiting family, PLUS home base.  Hate hotels/motels - even the best of them are either not at all, or questionably clean and in general are just disgusting.  By far and away, the best is the RV - get to sleep in my own bed "every night" and the taxes are very cheap.  Overall costs are also very cheap IF you are experienced and manage the operation carefully.  Plus the portability.

Home base is good except for all the maintenance and ongoing expense issues - huge drain.  Even if a house is paid off it is still expensive.  But tough to do the alternatives if there are kids around....

Maybe I will just become an extreme prepper and have a small cottage at ground level, above an old Nike missile base underground....hide the big pieces so the tax man don't see 'em.

[Townsend]

TW FB post:

OKLAHOMA CITY -- One of the most divisive issues of the 2012 legislative session apparently will be revisited this spring, with at least one "personhood" bill already filed.

[heironymouspasparagus]

One of my friends has lived in both TX and OK and he says OK is a bit less expensive.  One thing our family noted when we moved here from PA in 1971 is that the standard of living is lower in OK than it was in PA when we moved.

I would consider that a lot more than a minor irritant. Do you really think you don't pay property taxes when you rent? You don't pay directly but I'm sure they are included in the rent.

I need just a touch of clarification - was it YOUR standard of living that was lower or the average observed you saw around you?  (If yours was lower, why would you - parents - ever move...??)


Property taxes are being paid by rent - few in that business (or any business!) will take a loss without some other offsetting benefit.  This is one of those things that falls between the cracks - Broken Arrow uses certain business renters as an excuse to jack up some fees they charge in town.  Their claim is that since the operator doesn't pay property taxes for infrastructure, then the fee makes up for it.  Except the rent DOES pay property taxes as a pass through to the landlord...and now ya get double taxation.

[Townsend]

Oklahoma House Bill 1895 would cut Arts Council funding

http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/state/oklahoma-house-bill-1895-would-cut-arts-council-funding

TULSA - A bill filed by an Oklahoma state representative would eliminate state funding for the Oklahoma Arts Council within four years.

Filed Friday, HB 1895 would cut money appropriated to the Council by at least 25 percent every year until 2017.

Representative Josh Cockroft authored the bill and wrote about his proposal in a recent blog post.

"The question each of us must ask is if we are properly funding the core functions of state government," said Cockroft. " ... My goal is not to destroy the arts in Oklahoma, but rather to start a discussion of what our responsibilities are."

The sophomore representative estimates the measure would save Oklahoma around $4 million.

Cockroft cited an article published last March by the Oklahoma Council of Public Affairs, a state think tank, as the basis for the legislation.

Arts funding is not a "core function of government," wrote author Jonathan Small in the piece.

"The Arts Council can operate solely from donations and self-generated funds, without receiving state appropriations," said Small. "Promotion of the arts is a nonprofit interest, which should not be advantaged over other nonprofit efforts that do not receive state appropriations."

In response to the bill's filing, the Oklahoma Arts Council posted an impassioned plea to its supporters and called HB1895 "a challenge that will require thoughtful, strategic and well-timed communication between arts advocates and their individual legislators."

Oklahoma Arts Council Executive Director Jennifer McCollum also forecasted "the largest grassroots campaign for public funding for the arts in the Oklahoma Arts Council's nearly 50-year history."