Mass Shootings the last six months

[Gaspar]

We have, in fact, 10 years of empirical (real world) evidence using exactly that ban that is being proposed, that it does nothing in stopping psychopaths from doing what they want to do.  It HAS been tried.  It WAS ineffective at accomplishing what all the wringing of hands is all about.

And yet, we continue to ignore and look away from root causes.  We continue to fixate on band-aids that don't work.  

Can someone make the argument that we continue to ignore a search for root causes and again try something the has been proven ineffectual?   Wow!  This is sounding like what we do in the "war on drugs"... keep going back to the same stable of proven false conclusions and wanting the keep trying the same old ineffective hog slop!

When do we as a society start to realize; that constitutes insanity as public policy?

Heiron, I am sure you understand that it has nothing to do with banning assault style weapons, just as Obamacare has nothing to do with reducing the cost of healthcare.  
It has to do with creating a MEANS to an END.  There is no chance that the federal government could ever ban and ultimately confiscate guns, UNLESS they were successful in implementing a series of baby steps to restrict and regulate their use and function.  This of course starts with appearance.  Military style weapons look scary, so that's easier for the low information folks to get behind.  The Clinton law was unsuccessful because it was never amended to expand the ban (as was initially intended).

Civilians with guns do not serve the state and ultimately pose a political risk.  The ability of millions to defend themselves when someone breaks down the door takes power away from government in it's duty to protect your rights.  Civilians with guns are free because there is no way to regulate how they use that power, and government has the organic need to regulate and control.



In 1928 Germans were required to register weapons with the government.  In March 19, 1938 Germany passed Waffengesetz, a law that restricted the ownership of "Millitary Useful Weapons", their term for "Assault Weapons."  Shortly after they passed legislation making ownership illegal for certain groups of people. When they marched into the Kraków Ghetto in 1942 to "liquidate" its residents there was little or no resistance.  

It always starts the same way.  It always will.

[Conan71]

This looks a lot less scary to me than a "black gun"

[heironymouspasparagus]

Heiron, I am sure you understand that it has nothing to do with banning assault style weapons, just as Obamacare has nothing to do with reducing the cost of healthcare.  
It has to do with creating a MEANS to an END.  There is no chance that the federal government could ever ban and ultimately confiscate guns, UNLESS they were successful in implementing a series of baby steps to restrict and regulate their use and function.  This of course starts with appearance.  Military style weapons look scary, so that's easier for the low information folks to get behind.  The Clinton law was unsuccessful because it was never amended to expand the ban (as was initially intended).

Civilians with guns do not serve the state and ultimately pose a political risk.  The ability of millions to defend themselves when someone breaks down the door takes power away from government in it's duty to protect your rights.  Civilians with guns are free because there is no way to regulate how they use that power, and government has the organic need to regulate and control.



In 1928 Germans were required to register weapons with the government.  In March 19, 1938 Germany passed Waffengesetz, a law that restricted the ownership of "Millitary Useful Weapons", their term for "Assault Weapons."  Shortly after they passed legislation making ownership illegal for certain groups of people. When they marched into the Kraków Ghetto in 1942 to "liquidate" its residents there was little or no resistance.  

It always starts the same way.  It always will.

Absolutely.  It's all about the control and exercise of power.  Has nothing to do with any of the propaganda we have been hearing.  If we were really concerned about human life and it's preservation, some of the other topics I have brought up would already be on the table and solutions much further along, and this would be very far down the list.  Goes to one of the things I have beat on you with before - we are concentrating on the one, two, dozens, or hundreds to the exclusion of concentrating on the hundreds of thousands or millions.  Tunnel vision, and a massive intrusion on my personal liberties.


To everyone - does this look "scary enough" to be banned??

https://www.google.com/search?q=colt+m2012&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=gg2&tbo=u&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=VfvuUJ6ZHI38qAGw-4CgCg&ved=0CDYQsAQ&biw=1144&bih=777

Even though it is a bolt action (non-semiautomatic), 5 shot hunting rifle?

[Red Arrow]

Can someone make the argument on why we should allow private ownership of magazines with more than ten rounds?

10 is an arbitrary number.  Why not 7, or 12, or 15.....?

[Gaspar]

10 is an arbitrary number.  Why not 7, or 12, or 15.....?

Perhaps 7, but when you get over 10, the shoes come off.

[RecycleMichael]

Perhaps 7, but when you get over 10, the shoes come off.

I have to remove my pants to count to 21.

[Teatownclown]

I like this post on a yahoo board from American1975:

WAKE UP!!!!!-I'm reposting this from earlier to EXPOSE this FACT, and HOPEFULLY get some more debate on the SOURCE of the PROBLEM:In 1957 there were over 500,000+
institutionalized in State Mental Institutions and we had reasonable involuntary commitment laws. We had no modern "gun control" laws, could buy your M1 Carbine through the mail along with all the 30 round magazines you wanted- yet mass random shootings NEVER HAPPENED!!! Was 1957 America a police state? Doctors and judges made the decision who to keep in the loony bin, and they could not get out until they were no longer a threat to self or a public threat. You still had the rights to a lawyer and judge to prove your sanity and get out if there was no basis for the decision.

Today we have emptied and closed the State Mental Institutions, created the homeless population, made involuntary commitment impossible until AFTER you commit a crime- and then try and blame guns for the actions of the mental patients!!! Jared Laughner- parents tried to get him help at least twice but were turned down for la#$%$ insurance, neighbors said he would ride around on his bike talking to himself, school said he was unbalanced- in the PAST he would have been institutionalized long before he shot Gabby based on his obvious illness! Virginia Tech- school teachers said he was unbalanced- in the PAST he would have been institutionalized based on his obvious behavior!!! Colorado- His college psychiatrist was so alarmed by Holmes that she had him banned from the campus, but nothing else. In the PAST- she could have had him involuntarily committed BEFORE he hurt anyone!!! What was even the POINT of him trying to get help from the psychiatrist when all she did was ban him from the school???!!! Even Charles Whitman in 1966, the first of these crazed m#$%$hooters warned authorities before hand by seeking help from Texas University's school psychiatrist- repeatedly! He had severe migraine headaches and extreme anger that HE knew was irrational, turned out he had a BRAIN TUMOR- discovered AFTER his death!!! He even told his psychiatrist he was fantasizing about shooting people from the tower!!! If his school psychiatrist had remotely done his job he would have gotten the help he sought. To this day Texas University won't release all of Whitman's medical records, claiming the deceased "right to privacy"- so the school won't be SUED!!!! Newtown CT- Mother was so scared of her son she told sitters not to turn their ba#$%$ on him even if they went to the bathroom, but with him not having committed a crime involuntary commitment is virtually impossible and there is no where to send him. 40 years ago he would have been institutionalized in a State Mental Institution based on his behavior. You know where the largest State Mental Institution in Connecticut is? NEWTOWN- its been CLOSED for DECADES! This is NOT a "gun control" issue!

from: Massacre-hardened Colorado a gun control test case
http://news.yahoo.com/massacre-hardened-colorado-gun-control-test-case-084954441.html

[heironymouspasparagus]

I like this post on a yahoo board from American1975:

Your quote was absolutely right.  Just like we have been saying.  You decided to come back to reality, then?  That should be refreshing for all your friends and family....

[Teatownclown]

Your quote was absolutely right.  Just like we have been saying.  You decided to come back to reality, then?  That should be refreshing for all your friends and family....

It's not an "'either-or" approach. Guns and ammunition need regulation.  Humans should be audited.

I've always been in reality ....separate from yours.

[heironymouspasparagus]

It's not an "'either-or" approach. Guns and ammunition need regulation.  Humans should be audited.

I've always been in reality ....separate from yours.

But mine's real.

You don't even accept the reality of your own senses - even when you do the investigation, find the reality, and post it yourself.  Now THAT is seriously whacked out there....

[patric]

I have to remove my pants to count to 21.

Whole integers please, no fractions or decimals.

[heironymouspasparagus]

It's not an "'either-or" approach. Guns and ammunition need regulation.  Humans should be audited.

I've always been in reality ....separate from yours.

And are your friends and family scared to turn their back on you, too??

[Gaspar]

It's not an "'either-or" approach. Guns and ammunition need regulation.  Humans should be audited.

I've always been in reality ....separate from yours.

Is there any product or form of commerce that in your opinion does not need regulation?

. . .besides pot!

[heironymouspasparagus]

Is there any product or form of commerce that in your opinion does not need regulation?

. . .besides pot!

Banks and insurance companies surely wouldn't need any regulation - they would operate in societie's best interest simply because it corresponds so closely to their own....

[Teatownclown]

Follow the ammo!

California Weighs Bill to Track Ammo Sales

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323706704578229951143416628.html

"If passed, the bill would give California more oversight of ammunition sales than any other state in the nation. Few states currently regulate or oversee ammunition sales, with state laws typically targeting guns instead."
"It's appalling that ammunition is largely unregulated in America," said Mr. Van Houten, whose group advocates for stricter gun-control laws.

Heirloon, in your perception of reality what could go wrong raising the tax on ammunition and following who is stocking up?