Oklahoma's State Capital Building is Crumbling

[TheArtist]

It has been a mess for years, and yet the failed Governor and Legislature can't seem to understand that "common good" thing for the Capital, as well as storm shelters in schools, roads, rail, or infrastructure in general...  but they are ALL about their tax cuts and cutting funds for education!!

How is this a "common good" thing?  Wouldn't it be better, less expensive and more efficient, to occupy a more modern office building?

How is repairing this building going to help me?

[heironymouspasparagus]

How is this a "common good" thing?  Wouldn't it be better, less expensive and more efficient, to occupy a more modern office building?

How is repairing this building going to help me?

Pride in the state...??  I don't know...I couldn't care less about that building, just threw it in with all the other stuff to be a good, patriotic citizen...  I would prefer a well built office building for those clowns - and they don't deserve even that, but we should at least appear better than something out of the comic books.  Oh, wait....too late!!

The rest of that stuff IS important, and being ignored as badly as the Capital....maybe that's it - a symbolic line item with all the others that we just don't give a rat's tail side about....all that good stuff that is drawing in companies in a mad rush to develop here!!

[nathanm]

How is this a "common good" thing?  Wouldn't it be better, less expensive and more efficient, to occupy a more modern office building?

Some would say that it is precisely that loss of grandeur in public buildings which has played a significant part in eroding respect for government, even when it is doing the will of the people.

There's a reason why banks build formidable looking buildings. There is a significant psychological effect on people, both depositors who will feel that their funds are more safe in a granite and marble fortress, and would-be robbers who are less likely to bother when the place looks imposing.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Some would say that it is precisely that loss of grandeur in public buildings which has played a significant part in eroding respect for government, even when it is doing the will of the people.

There's a reason why banks build formidable looking buildings. There is a significant psychological effect on people, both depositors who will feel that their funds are more safe in a granite and marble fortress, and would-be robbers who are less likely to bother when the place looks imposing.

Or for the grandiose ego's of their CEO's....  Check out the large marble fortress' that Arvest uses....

[Townsend]

There's a reason why banks build formidable looking buildings. There is a significant psychological effect on people, both depositors who will feel that their funds are more safe in a granite and marble fortress, and would-be robbers who are less likely to bother when the place looks imposing.

Meh, I think our state government would do fine in a refurbished QT.

[rebound]

Meh, I think our state government would do fine in a refurbished QT.

I can't tell when people are joking or not on this subject.  Artist, I would think you would be very supportive of restoration of the capital.  Tearing down old buildings (public or not) instead of refurbishing them, is one of the reasons our downtown is the way it is.   

There is a reason that Texas intentionally built their capital to be taller than the US capital.  They understand that a certain "grandness" is essential for state pride.  It's an ego trip, obviously.  But a little more pride and a bigger ego would go a long way towards fixing a lot of the issues in this state.  We can be more than "OK".

   

[Townsend]

  But a little more pride and a bigger ego would go a long way towards fixing a lot of the issues in this state.  We can be more than "OK".

   

Take a little more than a patched up capital building. 

The little knowledge of what happens in there destroys any pride a logical person could ever achieve from a pretty building with the 10 commandments and Beelzebub on the lawn.

[Conan71]

I've got the perfect place in mind to relocate them to

[TheArtist]

I can't tell when people are joking or not on this subject.  Artist, I would think you would be very supportive of restoration of the capital.  Tearing down old buildings (public or not) instead of refurbishing them, is one of the reasons our downtown is the way it is.  
We can be more than "OK".

 

It's my frustration that many of the very people who argue against tax credits for instance, to help restore old historic buildings containing significant artistic and cultural value (like the Art Deco, Tulsa Club for instance) and that would actually benefit me, and I think Tulsa for that matter far more than the Capital building would, are the same ones who now are arguing for the restoration of the building they are sitting in... and using the same arguments for fixing it, that they poo poo as irrelevant when we want to preserve our history here.  Grates me to no end.  So I think it's perfectly fair to use the arguments they use against the preservation tax credits, against preserving and restoring the capital.

[TheArtist]

I've got the perfect place in mind to relocate them to

Bring on the torches and pitchforks and lets do it lol.

[rebound]

It's my frustration that many of the very people who argue against tax credits for instance, to help restore old historic buildings containing significant artistic and cultural value (like the Art Deco, Tulsa Club for instance) and that would actually benefit me, and I think Tulsa for that matter far more than the Capital building would, are the same ones who now are arguing for the restoration of the building they are sitting in... and using the same arguments for fixing it, that they poo poo as irrelevant when we want to preserve our history here.  Grates me to no end.  So I think it's perfectly fair to use the arguments they use against the preservation tax credits, against preserving and restoring the capital.

Well stated, and I agree with you.  I am very much a proponent of tax credits for restoration instead of tearing down.  But holding aside the idiocy that goes on within the building itself,  it is a symbol and one we should take care of.   Let's fix it, and then maybe we can use that example in future restoration considerations.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Well stated, and I agree with you.  I am very much a proponent of tax credits for restoration instead of tearing down.  But holding aside the idiocy that goes on within the building itself,  it is a symbol and one we should take care of.   Let's fix it, and then maybe we can use that example in future restoration considerations.

And just when everyone thought it was safe to get back in the water - here I come again and bring up the Civic Center - and building the new Crashship in lieu of rebuilding CC first....

[Hoss]

And just when everyone thought it was safe to get back in the water - here I come again and bring up the Civic Center - and building the new Crashship in lieu of rebuilding CC first....

That's really apples and oranges though.  Cities like Little Rock and KC were building arenas with twice the capacity of the CC and drawing better concerts.  It was more about draw.  Flawed comparison.  Plus, no arguing that the CrashShip has been a tremendous success...

[heironymouspasparagus]

That's really apples and oranges though.  Cities like Little Rock and KC were building arenas with twice the capacity of the CC and drawing better concerts.  It was more about draw.  Flawed comparison.  Plus, no arguing that the CrashShip has been a tremendous success...

True, it has.

But we should have still taken care of CC, independently of the whole CrashShip discussion.  Just shows how unimaginative the powers that be are to have to use the decay of CC as part of rationalization....



On a separate note - after hearing about the condition of the Capital, the Satanic statue, and watching Colbert talking about that statue and Oklahoma, and other of the stupid stuff that Failin' and Company are all about - I got this comment from an emigrant from Oklahoma - "And Oklahoma continuing into the downward spiral of awkwardness and weirdness. Is there ever any good news out of Ok?!"

[Hoss]

True, it has.

But we should have still taken care of CC, independently of the whole CrashShip discussion.  Just shows how unimaginative the powers that be are to have to use the decay of CC as part of rationalization....



On a separate note - after hearing about the condition of the Capital, the Satanic statue, and watching Colbert talking about that statue and Oklahoma, and other of the stupid stuff that Failin' and Company are all about - I got this comment from an emigrant from Oklahoma - "And Oklahoma continuing into the downward spiral of awkwardness and weirdness. Is there ever any good news out of Ok?!"

The CC was over 40 years old however when the construction on the new center began.  It had a maximum capacity of less than 10,000.  The Mabee Center was larger by comparison.

I know the CC and the new building quite well, as a hockey season ticket holder since the late nineties.  Nights pieces of the ceiling would fall to the ice.  It was dated.  I liked it, don't get me wrong.  We just needed newer to move forward.

While the BOK Center takes some getting used to, compared to every other venue I've been to, it's a gem.  I've been to the AA Center in Dallas, ScottTrade in St. Louis.  These are comparable sized buildings with one major flaw.  The concourses are TINY.  It's like the Mabee Center on graduation night for Union.  The BOK Center has the most spacious concourses of any building I've ever been to.  Makes it comfortable to move about.