Teh stupid, it hurts.

[Ed W]

I stopped by the doctor's office to see that all my immunizations were up to date, then went off to attend one of Congressman Bridenstein's town hall meetings.  This one was in Owasso.  There are more scheduled.

He made some brief remarks, then took written questions.  It was the usual litany of complaints: Obamacare, gun control, immigration, and taxes.  The latter brought up an unusual exchange about the Fair Tax proposal.  Bridenstein supports it.  The idea is to eliminate nearly all federal taxes; income, capital gains, corporate taxes, inheritance, and so on.  According to the congressman, this would cause prices to go down by 23%, so by substituting a national sales tax of 23%, we can both eliminate federal taxes and keep prices the same.  It's astounding in its simplicity, and that very simplicity is appealing to our low information electorate.  They turned out in force for this meeting, almost uniformly elderly and 100% white.  

I pointed out that he voted against federal disaster funds for the northeast after its devastating storm, and asked if he would vote against similar disaster funds for Oklahoma.  After a long riff about the problems faced by the federal flood insurance program, he conceded that if a disaster relief bill for Oklahoma had provisions he opposed (mass transit seems to be a favorite target) he would oppose relief here too.  But the signal was nearly drowned in the noise and the concession was quickly passed over.

Oh, one of the questions was about 'forcing' those 48% who do not pay taxes to pay at least 10% of their income.  On one hand, these folks object to the federal government 'forcing' them to pay their own taxes, yet happily propose using federal power to make others do so.  It's a wonderment.

So I've had more than my share of Alice-In-Wonderland surrealism for this week.  

[heironymouspasparagus]

Sounds like it is about what I expected for that clown.

Heard some of those same lies being rehashed there during the 'right to work' campaign.  The big thing then was how it was going to lead to raises - higher pay - all around to the tune of 50 to 100% or more!!  Several of the guys I worked with at the time actually believed that carp, and spread it around trying to convince all who worked there that it was true!!

After the election, I waited a reasonable time - about 5 months - then asked by boss about those increases he had said were going to occur.  Wanna guess how that worked out...?

[sgrizzle]

I actually like Fair Tax (but I don't buy that prices will go down 23%, prices never go down)

What I do buy is that a proper Fair tax only places a tax on new goods and services, excluding necessities like groceries and medical care. By doing this it will mean that the tax very much effects the "haves" more than the "have nots" and the "haves" will be paying far more in taxes than they do now.

Not saying that their aren't eleventy billion ways this could go wrong, just saying it's a good idea in principle.

[swake]

I actually like Fair Tax (but I don't buy that prices will go down 23%, prices never go down)

What I do buy is that a proper Fair tax only places a tax on new goods and services, excluding necessities like groceries and medical care. By doing this it will mean that the tax very much effects the "haves" more than the "have nots" and the "haves" will be paying far more in taxes than they do now.

Not saying that their aren't eleventy billion ways this could go wrong, just saying it's a good idea in principle.

You are wanting a European style VAT tax then

[heironymouspasparagus]

You are wanting a European style VAT tax then

...which is in-addition to the other taxes.....

[patric]

So I've had more than my share of Alice-In-Wonderland surrealism for this week.  

Nah, just one more:

The high court ruled unanimously that a Florida police officer's use of a drug-sniffing dog to search a truck during a routine traffic stop was appropriate, even though the drugs found were not what the pooch was trained to detect.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/02/19/supreme-court-drug-sniffing-dog/1930219/

[DolfanBob]

He must be friends with Neil Boortz. I also like the Fair Tax proposal. It just won't ever happen because it makes sense.

[Gaspar]

The fact that it makes sense is only partially the reason it will never happen.  Fair or usage based taxes threaten the core modern American politics.  Currently people are not required to acknowledge what their taxes pay for or the amount of tax taken from them every day in the form of payroll taxes.  In fact, most voters are strikingly ignorant of government, its programs, and the amount of money spent.  Many actually view a tax refund as somehow "making money" and actually are willing to brag about the fact that "they got $XXXX from the government this year,"  instead of being embarrassed for miscalculating what they should have been paying.

Fair or usage based taxes force ALL consumers to be tax payers, and the disparity between price and price+tax forces them to be more aware of their government system and the value of what they are paying for.  It also forces politicians to design programs and platforms that provide the best value for the money they will request, instead of burying or embedding expenses. Usage taxes are very visible and changes or fluctuations cannot be manipulated or shifted to other members of the population through thousands of deductions, loopholes, and witholding tricks.

This level of transparency threatens the way our politicians have learned to game the system.  It would cause a mostly ambivalent population to take an unwelcome interest in politics.

[Red Arrow]

Usage taxes are very visible ...

They can be disguised somewhat by forcing merchants to display only the tax included price.

[Gaspar]

They can be disguised somewhat by forcing merchants to display only the tax included price.

The idea is to reduce "force."   

[Red Arrow]

The idea is to reduce "force."   

Good luck with that.

[nathanm]

Only 93 million income tax payers will see a tax increase with the Fair Tax. But hey, 9 million people will get a cut. Why not do it?

Anyway, as I've said before, I can't really support it, although I could with a sufficiently large "pre"bate for people on the low end of the income scale.

[sgrizzle]

Only 93 million income tax payers will see a tax increase with the Fair Tax. But hey, 9 million people will get a cut. Why not do it?

Anyway, as I've said before, I can't really support it, although I could with a sufficiently large "pre"bate for people on the low end of the income scale.

I could do with the Oklahoma state tax withholding tables to have something remotely to do with actual state tax rates.

[Gaspar]

I could do with the Oklahoma state tax withholding tables to have something remotely to do with actual state tax rates.

BWAHAHAHAHA!

[YoungTulsan]

Fair Tax is 30%, not 23%

A $1 Can o' Corn would be $1.30 under that scheme (prior to state & local sales tax)

The BS spin is that 30 cents is 23% of $1.30

After all of the other unintended consequences of a 30% sales tax, we would probably end up cannibalizing state & local revenues in protest of high taxation.   Currently the city and state rely heavily on sales tax to fund crucial services.  What happens when we are paying 38.517% sales tax and the third penny comes up for vote?