Efforts to Rename Brady Arts District

[AquaMan]

Then do something about this: Lee school is named after a Confederate general who owned slaves. Creek Indians owned slaves and refuse to this day to allow them voting privileges within the tribes they were part of.

These were racists whose names are on public streets and schools. It will not end and it is divisive. The polls show that only 17% support this name change. Yet it will likely happen. Hows that for divisive?

[AquaMan]

Lake Yahola. Public water source named after a popular and intelligent Creek Indian...who owned slaves as did most Creeks.

"Later the young man developed as an influential and eloquent speakers who utilized his skills for his people first and foremost. He was selected as a speaker for the chiefs, which was a distinct political role on the National Council. He became a wealthy trader and owned a 2,000-acre (8 km²) plantation near North Fork Town. As did other Creek and members of the Five Civilized Tribes, he purchased African-American slaves as workers for his plantation. Opothleyahola joined the Freemasons and accepted Christianity to become a Baptist."

Wikipedia.

Don't drink the water.

[RecycleMichael]

I don't condone owning slaves. Is there a movement of people who want to speak of this?

The charges against Tate Brady are heinous. If true, they are worse in my opinion. It is my opinion and it is based on how long ago it occurred and the acts themselves. Brady is accused of organizing the kidnapping of 17 people (guilty of not owning war bonds?), taking them to the woods, beating them with rope, then smearing tar and feathers into the wounds. Brady is also accused of leading a small group of men during the riot and killing five.

You are entitled to be outraged by someone owning slaves. It was wrong. But what Tate Brady is accused of is worse in my opinion.

[patric]

Then do something about this: Lee school is named after a Confederate general who owned slaves.

It was actually U.S. Grant's family that were slave owners, not Lee.
Grant still has his portrait on money... how painful must that be?   

[AquaMan]

Michael, worse than owning another person and depriving them of their personhood? Treating them as chattel? Beat me, tar me feather me but I still walk away a free man. I can sue, I can recover damages and force punishment. Slaves have no such standing.

Look, what you are reading is aged hearsay, perhaps from business enemies or participants who shielded their own reputations. They are old reports gathered by a publication who failed to investigate other businessmen who were likely involved just as much as Brady. Do you know the story of the inflammatory Tribune race riot headlines that have strangely disappeared? Why didn't the publication report those race mongering headlines like they did the other unsupported stories of the time? Whoops! There goes the Tribune Lofts! Perhaps because they haven't had an entertainment district named after them. Brady has become the scapegoat.

Opinions are great. Its one of two things we all have. But failure to see this for what it is, a grand standing, headline seeking, self serving, politically misguided effort that will never end, is foolish. This deepens the divide between factions of the city.

I gave you at least two examples and there are more. There is a movement that speaks to the existing racism of that time, it starts when Brady becomes forcibly whitewashed. The courts are still addressing the Creeks refusal to recognize as tribal members their former slaves who often bore their children.

[Red Arrow]

Each of your examples are private owned places or things. This is a public street.

We actually can do something about this.

Washington DC is a public place.  The Jefferson Memorial is a public place that I guess should be torn down since renaming it would be senseless.

You and everyone else who is concerned about a person's history could refuse to buy Ford automobiles....

You ask where does it stop. I ask when would it ever start.

These would be places to start.

[AquaMan]

It was actually U.S. Grant's family that were slave owners, not Lee.
Grant still has his portrait on money... how painful must that be?   

At least Grant didn't lead armed forces in support of those slave owners' rights.

Nah, Lee School needs to go. Then we start down the list of streets and buildings named after the five civilized tribes. Wait till we start figuring out the secret Nazi party supporters from pre WWII. This is big. The whole city may have to change. New street signs, advertising, etc. Good for business, really.

Then of course The Gathering place, funded by a German surnamed banker, which is on property that has a house designed to replicate Jefferson Davis's plantation. Can't go there unless they put up a plaque and some statuary.

[custosnox]

At least Grant didn't lead armed forces in support of those slave owners' rights.

Nah, Lee School needs to go. Then we start down the list of streets and buildings named after the five civilized tribes. Wait till we start figuring out the secret Nazi party supporters from pre WWII. This is big. The whole city may have to change. New street signs, advertising, etc. Good for business, really.

Then of course The Gathering place, funded by a German surnamed banker, which is on property that has a house designed to replicate Jefferson Davis's plantation. Can't go there unless they put up a plaque and some statuary.

While I agree that it is ridiculous to try and rename the district, or even the street, your stab at Kaiser is a really poor one.

[RecycleMichael]

My opinions are clearly in the minority on this forum.

To Red Arrow...I don't own a Ford vehicle, but not because Henry Ford made anti-Semitic statements. But you really relate that to the torture and murder that Brady is accused of?

To Aquaman...do you think the newspaper writing racist editorials equates as well?

I don't.

[cannon_fodder]

What about Sandusky Drive?  Penn State...

Michael, if we are going on a witch hunt and rename things because the namesake might have done something bad we had better put millions aside to start the effort...

The Kennedys were bootleggers.
Lee fought to defend slavery.
Grant owned slaves too.
Carnegie was a tyrant.
Edison has been accused of being an anti semmite.

I heard a rumor that Admiral is named for Admiral Yamamoto, who bombed Pearl Harbor.  If I could get WWII veterans to sign on we change that? Now, I don't have actual proof yet... but convincing people they should be outraged isn't that hard.

I heard that anything Kaiser is named after Kaiser Wilhelm, who was from Germany and is kinda-sorta responsible for the deaths of millions of Americans.

17% want to change the name because something a man dead for 80+ years may have done was stereotypical at the time and on top of that, he is accused of worse.  Sorry.

[Red Arrow]

To Red Arrow...I don't own a Ford vehicle, but not because Henry Ford made anti-Semitic statements. But you really relate that to the torture and murder that Brady is accused of?

Are you saying being antisemitic is no big deal?

[Gaspar]

Perhaps we should rename everything named after a person.  If you dig deep enough, everyone did something that someone else won't like.  Let's rename everything after non-intrusive plants.  No Poison Ivy Avenue please. 

Want to drive a Ford automobile or truck?  No more.  Henry Ford had some bad ties in todays world.  Chevrolet, Buick....  also named after people.  Oldsmobile is gone now as is Pontiac. Anything named after Charles Lindberg?  Not allowed.  We have already discussed that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson owned slaves.  Carnegie Hall?  Rename it Tulip Blossom Hall.  And so on...

We would need to rename several cities and states as well.

[sgrizzle]

I'll repeat the suggestion I made on other mediums.

Let's just say the street and district is named after Wayne Brady, maybe have him perform at the Brady theater.



Boom. Solved.

[Red Arrow]

We would need to rename several cities and states as well.

Yep.

[RecycleMichael]

I give up.

I guess we can never change anything because if we do, we have to change everything. I personally think that is a bogus argument, but you guys keep using it. I am uncomfortable with Brady's legacy. I didn't start the idea that we should change the name of the district, I just agreed that we should talk about it and consider it. I think his alleged crimes were unthinkable.

If many people think we should protest Ford vehicles, I would listen to their reasons. Apparently, you guys would be too afraid to listen. I don't know of any protests of Ford, but Red Arrow keeps bringing him up. I do know of a Brady protest and it is happening right here in Tulsa. I did not know of the Race Riot until after I finished school and I did not know of Brady until a local paper wrote a story about it. As I learn, I sometimes change my views.

Again I ask the question, is there anything you could learn about a person that would change your mind about honoring them? Apparently the answer is no because everyone has done something wrong in their life. I completely disagree.