Efforts to Rename Brady Arts District

[BKDotCom]

I give up.

I guess we can never change anything because if we do, we have to change everything. I personally think that is a bogus argument, but you guys keep using it.

It illustrates the lunacy of it all.   Lots of things are named after people of questionable legacy.   It's history.  Learn from it.
As soon as street a has been renamed...   The Hendersons of America will raise a stink about street/thing b.   and how it's being named after person b makes them uncomfortable.

A few renaming suggestions:

• History St
• Racist Ave
• Whitewashed Place
• Tate Blvd
• Gumdrop Ave
• Lollypop Lane

[RecycleMichael]

Here is a list of the number of times we have changed the names of streets in Tulsa.

http://stevemorse.org/census/changes/TulsaChanges.htm

As you can see, we have changed street names over two hundred times.

I expect similar outrage now from each of you. How dare we change a street name?

[rdj]

Here is a list of the number of times we have changed the names of streets in Tulsa.

http://stevemorse.org/census/changes/TulsaChanges.htm

As you can see, we have changed street names over two hundred times.

I expect similar outrage now from each of you. How dare we change a street name?

Why isn't the change to Brady listed in that list?

In my opinion this is picking at a scab.

[Red Arrow]

I don't know of any protests of Ford, but Red Arrow keeps bringing him up. I do know of a Brady protest and it is happening right here in Tulsa. I did not know of the Race Riot until after I finished school and I did not know of Brady until a local paper wrote a story about it. As I learn, I sometimes change my views.

I expect that most people today do not know, or choose to forgive, about Henry Ford's antisemitism.  That is all.  It's an example.  I do not expect people to stop buying Ford automobiles because of it.

Again I ask the question, is there anything you could learn about a person that would change your mind about honoring them? Apparently the answer is no because everyone has done something wrong in their life. I completely disagree.

Being a closet Liberal Democrat would be just cause.   

[cannon_fodder]

We are considering renaming a street and a BRAND.  The Brady District has been carefully branded and recently really took off.  If you want to rename Cincinatti to Chicago... fine.  But changing a brand is hard, and changing it because of accusations is bad business and bad policy.

He MAY have done bad things.  It is likely he was a racist.  Bit certainly when then street was named his contemporaries knew more than we did.  That doesn't make it right, hut it sets a precedent that takes more than rumor to throw away.

Is there a time when new information could force a name change? Absolutely.  But I think you face a high burden when you are trying to amend history.  And even then, as to Brady, something short of overt violence or instigation of violence doesn't convince me (I.e., racist remarks by a racist white man of his day are not enough for me).

For perspective: I think its a shame that many southern monuments to the civil war have been white washed. Many have long ago been altered to honor "all" the fallen or otherwise have been made neutral.  I wish they left these monuments alone and let New Orleans , Richmond, Atlanta honor their confederate dead.  Not because I want slavery or give a rats butt about "southern pride," but they are rewriting history.

Brady was honored by his contemporaries.  Absent significant proof of overt violence, let it be. (IMHO)

[RecycleMichael]

Pearl street was named by a Mayor to honor his mistress. Many years later when he was no longer in power, city leaders, embarrassed by the name, changed it to Peoria.

Let me hear your outrage. Honestly, I think you guys should demand it be changed back to Pearl.

If not, please explain the difference. We have branded the area as Pearl, by the way.

[BKDotCom]

Streets should be named to honor people, not to dishonor.

[AquaMan]

While I agree that it is ridiculous to try and rename the district, or even the street, your stab at Kaiser is a really poor one.

Because you're not following my drift. 92 years from now, when people are incensed that businessmen are still outsourcing jobs to other parts of the country and world (which BOK did) someone may use my post referring to Kaiser as a German surname to change parts of the city named after him.

It will be out of context of course, not really accurate and unprovable, yet, people will sign up to feel good about themselves.

[RecycleMichael]

I am offended by your off-hand slur of George Kaiser.

He has given so much and I can't think of anything he has insisted be in his name. Your inclusion of him in this discussion is in very poor taste.

[AquaMan]

My opinions are clearly in the minority on this forum.

To Red Arrow...I don't own a Ford vehicle, but not because Henry Ford made anti-Semitic statements. But you really relate that to the torture and murder that Brady is accused of?

To Aquaman...do you think the newspaper writing racist editorials equates as well?

I don't.

They weren't editorials my friend. They were incendiary headlines that mobilized mobs. They were available in files and on microfiche for some years where many people saw them but have since disappeared. Now its an anecdote no more supportable in fact than most of the Brady lore.

[BKDotCom]

1901 Conversation:

I am offended by your off-hand slur of George Kaiser Tate Brady.

He has given so much and I can't think of anything he has insisted be in his name. Your inclusion of him in this discussion is in very poor taste.

[AquaMan]

Pearl street was named by a Mayor to honor his mistress. Many years later when he was no longer in power, city leaders, embarrassed by the name, changed it to Peoria.

Let me hear your outrage. Honestly, I think you guys should demand it be changed back to Pearl.

If not, please explain the difference. We have branded the area as Pearl, by the way.

You're not giving up and your arguments are getting weaker. Its not unusual to change street names, the motivation is the key.

My street was originally Tookah street named after an Indian daughter of a local builder. Your grand father changed it to 19th street for logical reasons. That was acceptable. We even changed a local creek that was called "Black Boy Creek" on maps. The motivation was clear and supportable.

Indian street is not. We don't have a Caucasian street, an Asian Street or a Negro Street. It should be changed but Indians seem to be a lot more accomodating than some minorities. Maybe its the casino money that soothes their anger or maybe lack of a city council position.

To be consistent you must apply your logic throughout the city. And we must accept conjecture as a basis for that application.

[AquaMan]

I am offended by your off-hand slur of George Kaiser.

He has given so much and I can't think of anything he has insisted be in his name. Your inclusion of him in this discussion is in very poor taste.

Taste is subjective. I had family that lost jobs when he outsourced work to New Jersey. Some criticize him for the airlines fiasco that the city covered.  I am sure he is a fine man and I appreciate his help for the city but he is certainly no saint. Why is he off limits anyway? Who is available? Chester Cadieux? French surname.

Lighten up. You're wrong on this one.

[BKDotCom]

Perhaps we should just rename everything that has been named after a person.

By chance I just stumbled across this:

Mother Teresa: Anything but a saint...
Researchers dispell the myth of altruism and generosity surrounding Mother Teresa
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-03/uom-mta022813.php

[DolfanBob]

We could use the name Jesus street. But I think the Mexicans would be confused.