Efforts to Rename Brady Arts District

[patric]

We've got to tear down all of those monuments and rename lots of streets, cities, and even a state!

Who do you think built the White House?

It's gotta go, too.  Maybe we can put Rolland Emmerich on it?

[AquaMan]

It is like eight against one on this conversation and I am the problem?

I am trying to express my opinion and ask a simple question and now I am the problem with all public forums?

Wow. I had no idea I was so powerful. BTW, I never said that people don't care about crimes of the past. I said they don't care about the crimes that Tate Brady is accused of. I stand by that statement.

All eight of us are the problem? That's how powerful you are. We had to gang up on you.

You use a lot of conjecture. "If's", "Accusations", and inflammatory crimes that weren't even documented well at the time. That's just too weak for such a strong man.

[RecycleMichael]

Thanks for noticing.

I like the name Borden street.

[BKDotCom]

Thanks for noticing.

I like the name Borden street.

Sounds like a fascinating guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gail_Borden,_Jr.

[AngieB]

http://staugustine.com/stories/070906/world_3947831.shtml

Liverpool will not rename Penny Lane, despite slavery ties
The Associated Press
Published Sunday, July 09, 2006

LONDON -- Penny Lane will keep its name.

Liverpool officials said Saturday they would modify a proposal to rename streets linked to the slave trade when they realized the road made famous by the 1967 Beatles song was one of them.

The unassuming suburban avenue was named for James Penny, a wealthy 18th-century slave ship owner. Liverpool, the Beatles' northern English hometown, was once a major hub for the slave trade.

"I don't think anyone would seriously consider renaming Penny Lane," said city council member Barbara Mace, who has been pressing to get rid of names linked to slavery. "My proposal is to rename several of the streets and to replace them with the names of people who have done something positive."

Eric Lynch, 74, who gives tours focused on the history of Liverpool's involvement in the slave trade, said renaming any streets or squares would be a "disgraceful attempt to change history."

"It's like somebody in Germany deciding to bulldoze Auschwitz," Lynch said. "Like somebody deciding not to celebrate D-Day. If we don't know the past, how can we make sure we don't make the same mistakes? Are the monuments to the Irish famines going to go next?"

"You cannot and should not change history, however disagreeable it is," he said.

The 90-member council plans to talk Wednesday about a plan to rename several central Liverpool streets named for notorious slave traders.

Some want instead to honor Anthony Walker, a black teenager murdered with an ax in a July 2005 racial attack. Others suggest renaming streets for leading abolitionists.

"It's not trying to rewrite history," Mace said. "You can't. Liverpool's whole history is based on the slave trade. That's on the history books."

Liverpool was an important port of call for slave ships traveling between Africa and the Americas. During the second half of the 18th century, much of the city's economy was based on the trade.

[Conan71]

I give up.

I guess we can never change anything because if we do, we have to change everything. I personally think that is a bogus argument, but you guys keep using it. I am uncomfortable with Brady's legacy. I didn't start the idea that we should change the name of the district, I just agreed that we should talk about it and consider it. I think his alleged crimes were unthinkable.

If many people think we should protest Ford vehicles, I would listen to their reasons. Apparently, you guys would be too afraid to listen. I don't know of any protests of Ford, but Red Arrow keeps bringing him up. I do know of a Brady protest and it is happening right here in Tulsa. I did not know of the Race Riot until after I finished school and I did not know of Brady until a local paper wrote a story about it. As I learn, I sometimes change my views.

Again I ask the question, is there anything you could learn about a person that would change your mind about honoring them? Apparently the answer is no because everyone has done something wrong in their life. I completely disagree.

We allow names of states, counties, cities, streets, and even the seat of the United States government to remain even though they have been named after well-documented prominent slave owners, genocidal maniacs who advocated the extermination of Indians, and those who oppressed anyone but white free men.

I'm not sure how people gathered that Chapman's piece on Brady is "well-documented".  He does a masterful job of creating an identity of this man via 80 year-old hearsay.  How do we cobble together that he was the leader of the race riots based on his alleged participation in the tarring and feathering of some white males who were making trouble in the oil patch?

For some reason, Chapman (and apparently the publisher of This Land) has made it a personal mission to un-do other's hard work at creating a brand over the last 30 years and he's whipped a small minority of people into a frenzy over it who simply refuse to dig deeper into his claims.  Instead of clearly spelling out his sources in his articles, he says we must meet with him to see it.

Let's just name it the "This Land District" or "Guthrie District" since Chapman seems to have such an obsession for all things Woody Guthrie.

[RecycleMichael]

I believe that is an unfair opinion of the writer.

No one said anything about this in Tulsa's past. You went to school in Tulsa. Did you learn anything about the Tulsa Race Riot? I didn't. Until Chapman start researching this, I would bet that only like ten people new anything about this guy. Historians sometimes learn embarrassing history and this was a story that I think should be told.

People tell me that I should ignore it. I should focus on the positives of Brady. People keep saying that many things are named after people who did bad things.

How is that an excuse to hide the truth? Now that I know about Brady, I don't think the same about him. I can't just forget about it. I used to love Michael Jackson's music. Then I learned that he fondled little boys. Now when I hear one of his songs, I don't like it as much.

If nothing happens to the name of the street, it will have still been worth it for the community to have learned about Brady. It is a teachable lesson and shouldn't be covered up just because it happened a long time ago, or it hurts an area brand, or our history has others guilty of bad behavior.

I applaud This Land Press for educating us.  

[Red Arrow]

If nothing happens to the name of the street, it will have still been worth it for the community to have learned about Brady. It is a teachable lesson and shouldn't be covered up just because it happened a long time ago, or it hurts an area brand, or our history has others guilty of bad behavior.

It seems to me that getting rid of the evidence (renaming things) is just another form of cover-up.

[Townsend]

Why not keep the name of the district and the street but post factoid plaques all over the district?

"this happened here"

If the Brady stories can be backed up then plaque it.  "This street/district was named after...and he did this"

Otherwise, we move on.  It's not worth the loss of recognition that the District has developed but the truth of its past can always be documented for people to learn.

[BKDotCom]

I don't believe anyone on this forum is saying "ignore it".

Quite the opposite.
What we are saying is this:  renaming the street is a very deliberate "ignore this and pretend it never happened".

Keeping the name is good way of remembering it.   
Changing the name is a good way of forgetting it.

[Gaspar]

I don't believe anyone on this forum is saying "ignore it".

Quite the opposite.
What we are saying is this:  renaming the street is a very deliberate "ignore this and pretend it never happened".

Keeping the name is good way of remembering it.   
Changing the name is a good way of forgetting it.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!
Give that man a free hotdog.

[AquaMan]

I believe that is an unfair opinion of the writer.

No one said anything about this in Tulsa's past. You went to school in Tulsa. Did you learn anything about the Tulsa Race Riot? I didn't. Until Chapman start researching this, I would bet that only like ten people new anything about this guy. Historians sometimes learn embarrassing history and this was a story that I think should be told.

People tell me that I should ignore it. I should focus on the positives of Brady. People keep saying that many things are named after people who did bad things.

How is that an excuse to hide the truth? Now that I know about Brady, I don't think the same about him. I can't just forget about it. I used to love Michael Jackson's music. Then I learned that he fondled little boys. Now when I hear one of his songs, I don't like it as much.

If nothing happens to the name of the street, it will have still been worth it for the community to have learned about Brady. It is a teachable lesson and shouldn't be covered up just because it happened a long time ago, or it hurts an area brand, or our history has others guilty of bad behavior.

I applaud This Land Press for educating us.  

In law i think they refer to this as "assumes facts not in evidence". They did teach us about the Race Riot in the 60's at Woodrow Wilson jr. high. It wasn't much but it was in the textbooks and covered in Social Studies. I should note that The World did some pretty good reporting when the issue of riot reparations was pushed many years ago.  I wouldn't be surprised if much of the current reporting was in those articles that went to the masses btw. There have been ample opportunities for education on the subject.

I find myself in agreement here with people I have very little else to agree with. We have all given you pretty good arguments and nothing sways your view. I just don't see This Land Press the same way. They just played with us all.

[Conan71]

I believe that is an unfair opinion of the writer.

No one said anything about this in Tulsa's past. You went to school in Tulsa. Did you learn anything about the Tulsa Race Riot? I didn't. Until Chapman start researching this, I would bet that only like ten people new anything about this guy. Historians sometimes learn embarrassing history and this was a story that I think should be told.

People tell me that I should ignore it. I should focus on the positives of Brady. People keep saying that many things are named after people who did bad things.

How is that an excuse to hide the truth? Now that I know about Brady, I don't think the same about him. I can't just forget about it. I used to love Michael Jackson's music. Then I learned that he fondled little boys. Now when I hear one of his songs, I don't like it as much.

If nothing happens to the name of the street, it will have still been worth it for the community to have learned about Brady. It is a teachable lesson and shouldn't be covered up just because it happened a long time ago, or it hurts an area brand, or our history has others guilty of bad behavior.

I applaud This Land Press for educating us.  

My awareness of the riots dates at least back to high school, though it was not very in-depth other than it happened and what event(s) precipitated the riots.

My problem stems from the idea that Tate Brady was the worst Tulsan who ever lived and that there are plenty of other institutions, streets, and buildings named for people who likely shared the common views of the era.  Why the singular focus on Brady?  Why not dig into the deep dark pasts of the Lorton, McBirney, Mayo, Cosden, and Phillips, and etc. families?

Everyone else points out correctly that sometimes burying a name is just as bad as ignoring the events which happened. 

I noticed while walking around on Tulsa Tough weekend, there are small memorial plaques embedded in the sidewalks in the Brady District noting where structures once stood which were destroyed in the riots.  The John Hope Franklin Reconciliation Park was supposed to be an adequate memorial in the area to the riots and keep them from being white-washed.

If Brady and other early leaders were horrible people, let those who want that fact in the forefront erect some sort of monument to perpetuate that along Brady Street, but don't ruin the hard work and sweat equity of others by destroying a brand that has taken 30-plus years to develop. 

I'd love to hear the opinion of some of the original stake-holders.  If David Sharp, Peter Mayo, and others who took all the risks to preserve and develop the area early on want to change it, more power to them.  I simply don't think you jump in and change something that quite a few people are heavily vested because some publication runs a story suggesting the area's namesake was racist, based on anecdotal accounts from 80 or 90 years ago.

[RecycleMichael]

Do you really think someone is going to pay for monuments running down Tate Brady? And wouldn't such a monument just do more to honor him?

Are their examples of such plaques elsewhere?

Maybe I just missed the statues about Bernie Madoff, (he gave big bucks to charity), Pete Rose (most hits ever in baseball), and Woody Allen (a house full of Academy Awards).

[rdj]

What does This Land Press, et al hope to achieve by renaming the street, district, etc?  From my perspective it will be little more than a token gesture that leads to a group of folks standing in a circle at a ribbon cutting with no real change.

Why don't you venture into the poorest parts of north Tulsa that have been most affected by the division of this city and ask them how the renaming of a street and entertainment district they can't afford to step foot in changes their life?  I can guarantee few of them could give a damn about the Brady District, they're more concerned about where their next meal and rent check will come from. 

In lieu of attacking something that appears to be mere grandstanding why don't these individuals work for real change?