Puppet War in Syria

[nathanm]

What is the statute of limitations for using chemical weapons?

Nobody said there was one. However, when deciding whether military action is appropriate in a given situation, I would have to say that "currently using chemical weapons" lends the situation some urgency. I'm rather torn on this whole Syria thing. On the one hand, I'm tired of us playing cop. On the other, allowing Assad to get away with using chemical weapons makes it more likely chemical weapons will be used elsewhere in the future. In some ways, that makes it our (and everyone else's) business.

[Red Arrow]

Nobody said there was one. However, when deciding whether military action is appropriate in a given situation, I would have to say that "currently using chemical weapons" lends the situation some urgency. I'm rather torn on this whole Syria thing. On the one hand, I'm tired of us playing cop. On the other, allowing Assad to get away with using chemical weapons makes it more likely chemical weapons will be used elsewhere in the future. In some ways, that makes it our (and everyone else's) business.

It amazes me that some people can't see a difference between a country that had used WMDs over a decade prior and had been supervised destroying them and another that (probably) is using them as we speak.

Step 1:  Wait 10 years.

[Red Arrow]

So, the leading country in the free world, wrapped in moralism and chauvinism, should just stand by and watch as innocents are gassed along with militants because we're weary, economically recovering, politically at odds with each other, distrustful of our government, dependent on middle east resources and convinced the middle east deserves to suffer in a sickness of their own making. That's what I draw from this conversation no matter how artfully, hatefully and contorted the remarks.

We did that during the build-up to WWII. Mired in depression, mistrust of our government and foreign entanglements, isolationism and lethargy, we ignored the genocide and destruction that was ravaging Europe and Asia. Lots of countries did. We even turned our eyes away from a strong ally, Britain. Of course at the time we used the same logic displayed here. Those were Jews after all, not Christians, and atrocities in Asia were rooted in long histories we couldn't even fathom. Let them solve their disputes without our involvement.

People who tried to make that correlation in 2003 were laughed at.  I guess it was because we weren't in a depression/recession, yet.  And because Bush II was President. 

[Red Arrow]

convinced the middle east deserves to suffer in a sickness of their own making.

How many times do you need to be stabbed in the back after you try to help to realize "those people" don't want what we have to offer?  I don't care what religion they are, only that what we try to give them is discarded and not appreciated.

[Hoss]

How many times do you need to be stabbed in the back after you try to help to realize "those people" don't want what we have to offer?  I don't care what religion they are, only that what we try to give them is discarded and not appreciated.

Problem is that we 'need' what they have to offer (oil) and as long as that remains the case our role as world policemen in that area is assured.  Unfortunately.

[Red Arrow]

Problem is that we 'need' what they have to offer (oil) and as long as that remains the case our role as world policemen in that area is assured.  Unfortunately.

I recognize the reality of what you said.

[AquaMan]

People who tried to make that correlation in 2003 were laughed at.  I guess it was because we weren't in a depression/recession, yet.  And because Bush II was President. 

I'll have to doubt your assertion. I don't remember anyone making such correlations or laughing during the situation. I remember being doubtful of the evidence of wmd's. Nonetheless, Saddam was worthy of toppling and so is Assad. Is there any doubt about the use of chemical weapons on innocents?

[Red Arrow]

I'll have to doubt your assertion. I don't remember anyone making such correlations or laughing during the situation.

I will have to concede there may not have been physical laughing.  I wasn't on TNF at the time but anyone I mentioned it to definitely poo-pooed  it.

I remember being doubtful of the evidence of wmd's.

As do we all. It is, however, easier to prove something exists than to prove something did not exist.  We also gave Saddam enough warning for him to move them somewhere else, perhaps Syria.

Nonetheless, Saddam was worthy of toppling and so is Assad. Is there any doubt about the use of chemical weapons on innocents?

Was there any doubt of chemical weapons use on innocents by Saddam?  Assad is not a good guy.  The forces fighting him are also not our friends.  I hear so often that our intervention in Iraq was TOTALLY UNJUSTIFIED and cost HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS maybe MILLIONS of innocent civilians their lives but now our intervention in Syria is TOTALLY JUSTIFIED.  Give me a break.

What would you be saying if there were a Republican President of the USA.  I expect it would be a different story.

[AquaMan]

I will have to concede there may not have been physical laughing.  I wasn't on TNF at the time but anyone I mentioned it to definitely poo-pooed  it.
As do we all. It is, however, easier to prove something exists than to prove something did not exist.  We also gave Saddam enough warning for him to move them somewhere else, perhaps Syria.

Was there any doubt of chemical weapons use on innocents by Saddam?  Assad is not a good guy.  The forces fighting him are also not our friends.  I hear so often that our intervention in Iraq was TOTALLY UNJUSTIFIED and cost HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS maybe MILLIONS of innocent civilians their lives but now our intervention in Syria is TOTALLY JUSTIFIED.  Give me a break.

What would you be saying if there were a Republican President of the USA.  I expect it would be a different story.

You are leaving out pertinent details. 911 was still fresh as well as Bush's popularity. This is not ceteris paribus.

Totally justified? I couldn't say that. These are tough decisions that, other than Afghanistan, are never crystal clear. However, I supported the attack on Saddam and if I remember right, a republican was president. So did many of my friends. I was dubious of the facts and didn't trust Cheney at all but the stories of Kurds being gassed was too dramatic to ignore.

Maybe you need to change who you're having dialogues with.

[Red Arrow]

Maybe you need to change who you're having dialogues with.

Perhaps.  I am seeing a side of  you I did not expect.

[guido911]

It is a feeding frenzy on the Sunday news shows on Obama's dithering on Syria. Joe Lieberman appeared to tear him a new one. This is both an upsetting and embarrassing foreign policy approach. What happened to the "steel in his spine" stuff Biden said about Obama?

Just do it. Even the damned Syrian monsters are laughing at us.

[Ed W]

It is a feeding frenzy on the Sunday news shows on Obama's dithering on Syria. Joe Lieberman appeared to tear him a new one. This is both an upsetting and embarrassing foreign policy approach. What happened to the "steel in his spine" stuff Biden said about Obama?

Just do it. Even the damned Syrian monsters are laughing at us.

Wait a minute. President Obama is doing what he's supposed to do under the Constitution by putting this decision before Congress, and you're complaining about that?

[guido911]

Wait a minute. President Obama is doing what he's supposed to do under the Constitution by putting this decision before Congress, and you're complaining about that?

That's right. Congress set the "red line". Congress sent Kerry out here to make the case for attacking Syria. Please Ed. Don't insult us in here with your "Obama is doing the constitutional thing". He could have done that from the outset instead of looking at Congress after he couldn't get any coalition together. Bush could at least get Britain on board. 

Obama needs to be a leader, and in a profile of courage do what he believes a commander in chief should do.

[AquaMan]

Perhaps.  I am seeing a side of  you I did not expect.

Actually I meant your friends who gave you such a hard time.

[Ed W]

Obama needs to be a leader, and in a profile of courage do what he believes a commander in chief should do.

Oh, thanks. That cleared it up nicely. A leader would have gone ahead with an attack (and would have been soundly castigated by the Republicans for being both reckless and lawless) but when Obama follows our Constitution he can be criticized for not being a powerful leader.