Downtown parking

[davideinstein]

Is Dallas' public transit any better?

Yes. The DART is pretty good.

[DTowner]

A train with limited stops could easily achieve a 1 hour trip from DT Tulsa to DT OKC, and that's assuming the tracks are only improved to HSR standards on about 3/4s of the journey, or about how much of the present journey is on the turnpike. That said, I think it would be important to have commuter service that stops a few times along the way as well as an express that goes from here to OKC with zero stops.

$2 billion sounds like a lot of money, and it is to you or me, but compared to our overall transportation budget it's not that much. My only concern is that stubbornness among our populace would keep many from riding the train even if it is faster than driving, cost-competitive, and there are convenient transportation options at both ends, whether something like zipcar, trollies, or whatever. Seems to me that the benefit of basically unifying the workforces of our two largest cities would more than make up for the expense of building the thing. Closer economic ties between us make both OKC and Tulsa more attractive places for businesses to locate.

The Heartland Flyer is currently beings subsidized with $4 million per year (paid evenly between Oklahoma and Texas) and offers only 1 round trip per day.  Does anyone know what the ridership numbers are currently/historically?  $2 billion on a single transportation project would be huge, and that is money that then cannot be spent on anything else.

I have trouble seeing any way a train can make the downtown Tulsa to downtown OKC trip in 1 hour.  It takes approximately 1.5 hours by car with no stops and you can easily overage close to 70 MPH.  From what I've been told, the current tracks between Tulsa and OKC have a lot of curves.  If those curves are not straightened out, you will never get any real speed.  Moreover, even if straightened out, any stops along the way kill the average speed, with slowdowns and start ups and idling time to unload/load.  I don't think it is realistic to expect an express train trip to take less time than by car.  Adding stops (which will be necessary for practical and political reasons) along the way will push the trip out well in excess of 2 hours.  Even that time assumes a reasonable accommodation can be worked out with Burlington Northern, which owns the leg of rail between Sapulpa and Tulsa such that freight trains don't take precedence over passenger trains.

My firm's Tulsa and OKC offices are both located in each city's downtown and, assuming a round trip ticket is less than $120, it would be cheaper for it to buy my ticket than to reimburse me for the trip by car.  However, if more than one of us shared a ride to a meeting/event (which is not uncommon), the cost advantage disappears unless the train ticket is very cheap (unlikely) and then the only advantage of the train is the one person who would have been the driver can work while on the train.

It's easy to poke fun of us Okies as unwilling to give up our cars for mass transit and trains, but you cannot expect us to make an irrational choice of using transportation that is slower, more costly, provides less flexibility, requires renting a car on one end of the trip, or some other inconvenience.

[Townsend]

As far as the city public transit, is the train the chicken or the egg?

[Red Arrow]

As far as the city public transit, is the train the chicken or the egg?

Yes

[carltonplace]

They have rail from Ft Worth - Airport - Dallas.  Have never ridden it - yet.  May do so this fall.

This is the TRE, it's easy to use and inexpensive. Last time I was in Dallas I did not rent a car, I used the TRE from the Airport to Union, then took the DART to my hotel. I used the DART to get around, to get to the AA Center, to visit friends and to get to work. Went to FW on the TRE and back to the airport.

[AquaMan]

The Heartland Flyer is currently beings subsidized with $4 million per year (paid evenly between Oklahoma and Texas) and offers only 1 round trip per day.  Does anyone know what the ridership numbers are currently/historically?  $2 billion on a single transportation project would be huge, and that is money that then cannot be spent on anything else.

I have trouble seeing any way a train can make the downtown Tulsa to downtown OKC trip in 1 hour.  It takes approximately 1.5 hours by car with no stops and you can easily overage close to 70 MPH.  From what I've been told, the current tracks between Tulsa and OKC have a lot of curves.  If those curves are not straightened out, you will never get any real speed.  Moreover, even if straightened out, any stops along the way kill the average speed, with slowdowns and start ups and idling time to unload/load.  I don't think it is realistic to expect an express train trip to take less time than by car.  Adding stops (which will be necessary for practical and political reasons) along the way will push the trip out well in excess of 2 hours.  Even that time assumes a reasonable accommodation can be worked out with Burlington Northern, which owns the leg of rail between Sapulpa and Tulsa such that freight trains don't take precedence over passenger trains.

My firm's Tulsa and OKC offices are both located in each city's downtown and, assuming a round trip ticket is less than $120, it would be cheaper for it to buy my ticket than to reimburse me for the trip by car.  However, if more than one of us shared a ride to a meeting/event (which is not uncommon), the cost advantage disappears unless the train ticket is very cheap (unlikely) and then the only advantage of the train is the one person who would have been the driver can work while on the train.

It's easy to poke fun of us Okies as unwilling to give up our cars for mass transit and trains, but you cannot expect us to make an irrational choice of using transportation that is slower, more costly, provides less flexibility, requires renting a car on one end of the trip, or some other inconvenience.

Just monitoring this thread. I would take issue with your assumptions. Time to OKC is more like 1 hr 15 minutes and that's with my grandpa driving  . It is very difficult to average 70mph with road construction, hills, semi's, and taking break for coffee or restroom. Unless you have a pike pass you have to stop and wait there as well.  Most drivers on the turnpike are solo or doubles. And you can't really do any work, read a book, talk on the phone or eat safely while driving.

Just saying, to be fair, there is little to recommend driving this stretch if a decent train were available.

[Weatherdemon]

Just monitoring this thread. I would take issue with your assumptions. Time to OKC is more like 1 hr 15 minutes and that's with my grandpa driving  . It is very difficult to average 70mph with road construction, hills, semi's, and taking break for coffee or restroom. Unless you have a pike pass you have to stop and wait there as well.  Most drivers on the turnpike are solo or doubles. And you can't really do any work, read a book, talk on the phone or eat safely while driving.

Just saying, to be fair, there is little to recommend driving this stretch if a decent train were available.

How sweet would it be to take the train to OKC, walk to a Thunder game, have dinner, and catch the train back to Tulsa?

[BKDotCom]

How sweet would it be to take the train to OKC, walk to a Thunder game, have dinner, and catch the train back to Tulsa?

Not as sweet as OKC folk taking the train to Tulsa, walking to the BOK center and catching the train back to OKC

[Townsend]

Not as sweet as OKC folk taking the train to Tulsa, walking to the BOK center and catching the train back to OKC

[heironymouspasparagus]

The Heartland Flyer is currently beings subsidized with $4 million per year (paid evenly between Oklahoma and Texas) and offers only 1 round trip per day.  Does anyone know what the ridership numbers are currently/historically?  $2 billion on a single transportation project would be huge, and that is money that then cannot be spent on anything else.

My firm's Tulsa and OKC offices are both located in each city's downtown and, assuming a round trip ticket is less than $120, it would be cheaper for it to buy my ticket than to reimburse me for the trip by car.  However, if more than one of us shared a ride to a meeting/event (which is not uncommon), the cost advantage disappears unless the train ticket is very cheap (unlikely) and then the only advantage of the train is the one person who would have been the driver can work while on the train.

It's easy to poke fun of us Okies as unwilling to give up our cars for mass transit and trains, but you cannot expect us to make an irrational choice of using transportation that is slower, more costly, provides less flexibility, requires renting a car on one end of the trip, or some other inconvenience.

Round trip on Heartland Flyer from OKC to Ft Worth is  $56.

Not too shabby.  I would do that from Tul to OKC in a heartlandbeat.

[DTowner]

Round trip on Heartland Flyer from OKC to Ft Worth is  $56.

Not too shabby.  I would do that from Tul to OKC in a heartlandbeat.

It helps that Oklahoma and Texas pay nearly $11,000 per round trip (assuming this train runs 365 days a year), which is worth 595 round trip tickets at that price. 

[heironymouspasparagus]

It helps that Oklahoma and Texas pay nearly $11,000 per round trip (assuming this train runs 365 days a year), which is worth 595 round trip tickets at that price. 

Every time I have ridden it, there have been between 150 to 200 travelers - mostly has been out on Friday, back on Sunday or Monday - except for the Christmas trips on the weekends that are pretty much full...several hundred...not sure of total capacity, but there are always a lot of kids to see Santa.


595  ??  Not sure where that came from.... $11,000 at 56 each?  (That's about 196.)

[DTowner]

Every time I have ridden it, there have been between 150 to 200 travelers - mostly has been out on Friday, back on Sunday or Monday - except for the Christmas trips on the weekends that are pretty much full...several hundred...not sure of total capacity, but there are always a lot of kids to see Santa.


595  ??  Not sure where that came from.... $11,000 at 56 each?  (That's about 196.)

Apparently, I have math dyslexia - it is 196 tickets.

Here is an interesting article that says OKC-Ft. Worth route lost $43 per rider in 2012.  Not sure how they messure "rider", but it is likely by one-way, not round trip.  Even so, this made Heatland Flyer one of Armtrak's more "successful" routes.

http://newsok.com/heartland-flyer-loses-more-than-43-per-rider-in-2012-report-finds/article/3760428

[sgrizzle]

Trudy Monk was killed in a parking garage.

However, parking garages are nice during a hail storm.  Long bed crew cab pickups should be banned from most areas of the garage.

That's because she had the judge's illegitimate baby, and the judge hired a six-fingered man to off her. I don't see that being a common event.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Apparently, I have math dyslexia - it is 196 tickets.

Here is an interesting article that says OKC-Ft. Worth route lost $43 per rider in 2012.  Not sure how they messure "rider", but it is likely by one-way, not round trip.  Even so, this made Heatland Flyer one of Armtrak's more "successful" routes.

http://newsok.com/heartland-flyer-loses-more-than-43-per-rider-in-2012-report-finds/article/3760428

One of the things out of all this is that the people of Oklahoma - progressive types in particular, who have much to say about rail travel - are not using the available resource to anything even approaching capacity.  With the people I see loading up when I get on, there are still hundreds of empty seats.  I use that route any chance I get, mostly for pleasure, but twice so far for business.  Even with the stops, it is still better than driving the same distance.  It does take just a little bit of time more - about 30 minutes - to get to/from same points.  Great for business travel.  Can drive from Tulsa, park in the covered parking at the hotel across the street - I think it is still Courtyard by Marriott.  Then enjoy the ride!

There is a BIG Christmas store there on the route between Ft Worth and Dallas - Decorators Warehouse, Arlington - that SWMBO loves to visit!  It IS an amazing place that even caters to husbands - they have big screen TV in a special room at the back that plays 'guy stuff'...mostly sports.  Something for everyone.  And especially if any of you guys need to make some "points" with the other half...this is the place!  Always builds up several months of "slack"...

http://www.decoratorswarehousearlington.com/