Is Oktoberfest in Trouble, as RiverParks Makes Drastic Changes

[Hoss]

So according to people who know things about liqour.  There is a law that states that a person can only purchase 2 drinks at a time of strong beer.  So technically I think they have been breaking the law in the past.  Its supposed to be the same for bars.  They should only sell you 2 drinks at a time.

On another note.  The last IRS documents vailable for Oktoberfest shows that after their year where they lost $60k they made $303k profit.  It was about 20% profit.  Also the River Parks management change happend over a year ago.

*EDIT* somebody just called ABLE and they said that is how RPA wants to run it this year (no pitchers)

I'm guessing the year they lost money was likely the year the storm tore the tents down and hurt some people.  Am I correct in that assumption?

[Cats Cats Cats]

No that was 2007 I think.  Their sales were up about 300-400k from the 2010.  They could have invested more money into the festival for tents, etc.  I didn't pay attention.

[Conan71]

I'm curious how Oktoberfest has ever lost money considering they make you purchase tickets so they can control the cash at a single point and considering how absurd the beer prices are.  Unless they pay their committee members for set up and teardown, what are the expenses aside from tent rental and maybe table/chair rental?  The GA Society has several trailers of items they own and store the other 50 weeks out of the year when they aren't in set up, festival, or tear-down mode.  Event staffing, I do believe, is 100% volunteer other than security.

[Cats Cats Cats]

I'm curious how Oktoberfest has ever lost money considering they make you purchase tickets so they can control the cash at a single point and considering how absurd the beer prices are.  Unless they pay their committee members for set up and teardown, what are the expenses aside from tent rental and maybe table/chair rental?  The GA Society has several trailers of items they own and store the other 50 weeks out of the year when they aren't in set up, festival, or tear-down mode.  Event staffing, I do believe, is 100% volunteer other than security.

Just because they lost money for the year doesn't mean their festival lost money. The board didn't take money.  Maybe they prepaid something the next year out?  Their fiscal year goes until March I believe.

[Gaspar]

I'm curious how Oktoberfest has ever lost money considering they make you purchase tickets so they can control the cash at a single point and considering how absurd the beer prices are.  Unless they pay their committee members for set up and teardown, what are the expenses aside from tent rental and maybe table/chair rental?  The GA Society has several trailers of items they own and store the other 50 weeks out of the year when they aren't in set up, festival, or tear-down mode.  Event staffing, I do believe, is 100% volunteer other than security.

I know that they have at least one full-time year round staff member.  I don't know why, but they do.

[Cats Cats Cats]

https://bulk.resource.org/irs.gov/eo/2012_07_EO/73-1154567_990_201203.pdf
This is their last financial statement.  They had been paying somebody 60k a year to run it.  I don't think they show up in the latest statement.

Really weird.  They spent $14,285 more on from 2010 to 2011.  Their profit increased by $366,401.  That is all listed as "festival operations" so it doesn't look like they sold assets with a huge profit.  Looks pretty bad on the people running it when you don't pay a directory and your profit from any previous year goes up about 600%.  I've been goign through some of their older 990's and they seem to be between -60k to +50k.  Of course they were paying the director 60k.  So they got rid of the director and then profit goes crazy.

edit: previous years document.  https://bulk.resource.org/irs.gov/eo/2012_01_EO/73-1154567_990_201012.pdf

[sgrizzle]

RPA has been trying to come up with the funds after OF struggled. However, they didn't have control over how the festival was run. ABLE won't let volunteers drink anymore which is a big problem. Also giving all the volunteers front row parking is probably a bad idea too. If you do pitchers it makes it harder to control who drinks as well since you have to keep it away from those under 21 and volunteers.

Their sales will vary widely because they don't carry insurance and attendance and beer sales will vary widely based on weather, not just marketing. Also, I don't think they have a lot in the bank to carry them over the bad years.

RPA wants OF to be a stable, profitable operation that isn't shut down by Able and it seems that was not possible with the current setup.

[Conan71]

https://bulk.resource.org/irs.gov/eo/2012_07_EO/73-1154567_990_201203.pdf
This is their last financial statement.  They had been paying somebody 60k a year to run it.  I don't think they show up in the latest statement.

Really weird.  They spent $14,285 more on from 2010 to 2011.  Their profit increased by $366,401.  That is all listed as "festival operations" so it doesn't look like they sold assets with a huge profit.  Looks pretty bad on the people running it when you don't pay a directory and your profit from any previous year goes up about 600%.  I've been goign through some of their older 990's and they seem to be between -60k to +50k.  Of course they were paying the director 60k.  So they got rid of the director and then profit goes crazy.

edit: previous years document.  https://bulk.resource.org/irs.gov/eo/2012_01_EO/73-1154567_990_201012.pdf

Simple, 2010 total revenues were $1.15m vs. $1.53 in 2011.  What's odd about that is it almost implies that their "nut" is around $1.2m which doesn't make much sense if you consider beer would be a variable cost, unless they are spending $500K+ or so a year on Port-a-Johns, stage equipment, tents, site rental, and security.  Maybe I assume that people spend far more on beer or other liquid refreshments than they really do.

It would be interesting to look at what the weather was like those two years and see if there was quite a bit of rain during 2010 since all revenue would be generated from sponsorships, front gate admission, and ticket sales.  Also remember, they will not redeem your tickets for cash, so there's some tickets which go un-redeemed which are nothing but pure profit if it wasn't spent at the beer counter or with a food vendor.

[cannon_fodder]

Popular.
Profitable.
Gaining national attention.

So change it drastically?  That's dumb.

There has not been a significant problem with underage drinking.  Killing pitchers will not help (I can drink from your cup as easily as your pitcher.

Beer gardens?  Fine, put one in.  There are small quiet tents.  There are large dancing tents.  This is not a mutually exclusive proposition.  

If RiverParks doesn't want to be associated with a crazy beer fest - running Oktoberfest was a stupid decision.

[DowntownDan]

You can buy pitchers of strong beer at bars.  The bartender sometimes asks how many cups and you tell him a number and get cups.  How is this different?  I know some people buy pitchers just for themselves but whenever I go the group takes turns buying pitchers for the group.  Also, I don't recall any significant problems with drunks.  That has always surprised me.  With all of the drinking going on you might expect more problems.  I see worse drunk behaviour at a bar on Friday night than I do at Octoberfest.

[AquaMan]

Two things catch my attention.

Don't they pay rent for the use of the facilities? All other users surely have. And, no insurance? You mean OF doesn't insure? RPA has always required that along with them being added to the policy. I was told RPA has paid off big in previous years on such things as someone tripping over an electric cord. They don't take those chances anymore.

Lastly, the ticket system was changed due to shrinkage. Accountability is a problem with festivals and they are into control.

I stopped going when they started charging admission to cover their losses.

[Red Arrow]

You can buy pitchers of strong beer at bars.  The bartender sometimes asks how many cups and you tell him a number and get cups.  How is this different?  I know some people buy pitchers just for themselves

I believe if you only ask for one glass they are supposed to turn you down on buying a pitcher.

[DowntownDan]

I believe if you only ask for one glass they are supposed to turn you down on buying a pitcher.

Yep, which is why you always say two.  Or that your group already has glasses and its your turn to purchase a round.  Which is true for me and my group at Oktoberfest every year.  I'm just not getting what the problem with pichers is.  If it really is a law its stupid like the rest of our ancient liquor laws.

[DowntownDan]

From their facebook page:

Thanks for the feedback everyone. It's obvious that you love a great Oktoberfest as much as we do. To clarify: we will miss being able to have the traditional pitcher as well. Happily, we do have something exciting to offer fans of Tulsa Oktoberfest: an all-new 1-litre commemorative stein, made of thick acrylic (not plastic) with a close-to-unbreakable molded handle (trust us, we've tested). It's refillable, so you'll have plenty of table time with friends. And, it's modeled after the authentic steins used at the original Oktoberfest in Munich, Germany, so it's sure to be a fun collectible. We'll unveil the design in the next few weeks! We appreciate your passion and we look forward to raising a (heavy) stein with you soon.

I guess I don't really have a problem with this.  Pichers were easier for sharing rounds and it may mean more trips to the beer stand but not as bad as having to refill a 16 ouncer over and over again which is what I was afraid of.  I never understood people who buy their own picher anyways.  By the time its half way through it starts getting warm.  I don't know of anyone who can drink 64 ounces of heavy german beer fast enough that it stays cold without getting stumbling drunk quickly.  That takes the whole fun out of the event.

[AquaMan]

The problem with the pitchers is everyone knows you send one guy with an ID to buy the pitcher then share with the under 21's. The second problem is you tend to finish the pitcher cause its so expensive. I've never seen so many drunks in one place in my life and I drive a party bus. Corporate night should be filmed and redistributed to all sponsor employees so they can see who they work for and with. Years ago the company I worked for sponsored and in return had a banner put at the top of the tent (barely visible) so I got to visit on Corporate night and check on our investment. Frankly, it was an embarrassment. We never did it again.

I'm no prude but,....oh, the humanity....